Arthur Durnan Posted December 1, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2005 Gee whiz, why not simply READ Exodus 20 itself & discover TO WHOM the ten Commandments were given? Check out Exodus 19: 6 and Exodus 20: 2 for starters. The FACT is that nine of the Ten Commandments are REPEATED by the Apostle Paul re the Church of Jesus Christ in his powerful New Testament Epistles; the one that is NOT repeated for the Church of Jesus Christ comprised of both Jew & Gentile....is the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath observance! Only someone regally ensconced in the 19th-century personal deliberations of one, Ellen Gould Harmon White, will seek to impose Mosaic legalism on "set free" believers (Galatians 5:1 - why run from Galatians?) in Jesus the Sovereign Lord of Glory. Thank you, Lord Jesus for LIBERTY to do as we OUGHT! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 1, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,275 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,008 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2005 In context (Exodus 20:8-11) - which is vitally important, of course - the Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath was given expressly to the nation of Israel, not to the Church of Jesus Christ at all. Why celebrate a keystone of JEWISH doctrine (along with circumcision) when, according to the Apostle Paul, Faith (the Living, all-conquering Messiah-Savior) has come? All Sabbath-keepers must peruse & memorize the Epistle to the Galatians with all due haste. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com I would just like point out something about the book of Galatians. The book of Galatians is not, as may think, the death knell to Torah observance. "Keeping the law" is not what the book of Galatians is dealing with. The issue was circumcision. Evidently, this problem came about in the Galatian Church prior to the ruling of the Jerusalem council in Acts 15, as it would seem probable that Paul would have reminded them of this ruling had it already existed. It is my personal conviction that the controversy in Galatia might have been the catalyst for the Jerusalem council. You need to understand what circumcision means to a Jewish person. It is not done to just "keep the law." That is not the point at all. Circumcision of a Gentile is only performed when a Gentile is converting to the religion of the Jewish people. This was true even in Paul's day prior the religion of Judaism. When a Gentile is circumcised by a Rabbi (mohel), he is telling the world that he has now entered into the covenant, and has chosen to physically join the Jewish people. He has "converted," essentially. That is the only reason a Gentile would be ritually circumcised by a Rabbi. The problem in Galatia was that you had a Judaizing cult telling the Galatians that Jesus was not enough. They were telling them to be circumcised i.e., to become Jews. They were telling them that they had to physically join national Israel by becoming converts to the Jewish religion in addition to believing in Jesus. Paul never condemned anyone for keeping the Sabbath. He never condemned anyone for keeping kosher, or anything of that nature. He was, himself, a Torah observant Jew until the day of his death. It is important to point out that Jesus NEVER condemned Sabbath observance. What Jesus condemned was the hypocritical way that some of the Pharisees approached Sabbath observance. Contrary to popular Christian thought, observance of Torah is not the antithesis of Christianity. Sabbath observance is not contrary or inconsistent with any values or doctrines of the New Testament. Nor is sabbath observance a prerequisite to salvation. I believe that if that was not the intent of this thread, we'd not have anything to talk about, for in the 100+ pages of this and a couple of other threads that point has been made over and over and over again. Not for us to judge the keeping of special days or the sabbath. If the sabathians did not argue against that we'd not have anything to discuss. It is always followed up that the scripture is not talking about the weekly sabbath but other special days. It should be up to the individual person to do or not to do, but all should be done to the glory of Jesus the Christ one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted December 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted December 1, 2005 (snip!) Only someone regally ensconced in the 19th-century personal deliberations of one, Ellen Gould Harmon White, will seek to impose Mosaic legalism on "set free" believers (Galatians 5:1 - why run from Galatians?) in Jesus the Sovereign Lord of Glory. Thank you, Lord Jesus for LIBERTY to do as we OUGHT! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Not true. the majority of people in here that have argued for the sabbath are not Adventist. Here's a comprehensive list of other sabbath practicing groups. By their count they are currently over 400. sabbatarians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted December 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Nor is sabbath observance a prerequisite to salvation. I believe that if that was not the intent of this thread, we'd not have anything to talk about, for in the 100+ pages of this and a couple of other threads that point has been made over and over and over again. Not for us to judge the keeping of special days or the sabbath. If the sabathians did not argue against that we'd not have anything to discuss. It is always followed up that the scripture is not talking about the weekly sabbath but other special days. It should be up to the individual person to do or not to do, but all should be done to the glory of Jesus the Christ one way or the other. I think the OP wanted to get across the fact that there is no command of a replacement of one holy day for another in the bible. I'm pretty sure that the Catholic church has reason to use the writings of the fathers of their church to support sunday worship, but protestants are not supposed to be about tradition. The claim of the protestant is to allow the bible and the bible alone to have authority over their conscience. So if there is no scriptural reference to a command to change "the assembling" of themselves from the sabbath to another day, then what is the reason protestants worship on sunday? I think i read someone post here that in order to celebrate the resurrection of our lord, Christians worship on "the Lord's day". But you and I know that the bible tells us to celebrate the resurrection via baptism not keeping another day holy. I might be wrong but i think that's what the OP is trying to get across. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 (edited) Gee whiz, why not simply READ Exodus 20 itself & discover TO WHOM the ten Commandments were given? Check out Exodus 19: 6 and Exodus 20: 2 for starters. The FACT is that nine of the Ten Commandments are REPEATED by the Apostle Paul re the Church of Jesus Christ in his powerful New Testament Epistles; the one that is NOT repeated for the Church of Jesus Christ comprised of both Jew & Gentile....is the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath observance! Only someone regally ensconced in the 19th-century personal deliberations of one, Ellen Gould Harmon White, will seek to impose Mosaic legalism on "set free" believers (Galatians 5:1 - why run from Galatians?) in Jesus the Sovereign Lord of Glory. Thank you, Lord Jesus for LIBERTY to do as we OUGHT! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com You miss the point, Arthur. If someone wants to keep the Sabbath, it is their perogative. There is no commandment against the Sabbath in the NT, so one is free to do observe that day if he so chooses. I reject the notion that the Sabbath is obligatory, but neither should anyone be disparaged if they choose to keep it. Salvation is soley based upon Christ and his finished work upon the cross, not upon the day one chooses to observe as a day of rest. Edited December 1, 2005 by shiloh357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted December 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Gee whiz, why not simply READ Exodus 20 itself & discover TO WHOM the ten Commandments were given? Check out Exodus 19: 6 and Exodus 20: 2 for starters. The FACT is that nine of the Ten Commandments are REPEATED by the Apostle Paul re the Church of Jesus Christ in his powerful New Testament Epistles; the one that is NOT repeated for the Church of Jesus Christ comprised of both Jew & Gentile....is the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath observance! Only someone regally ensconced in the 19th-century personal deliberations of one, Ellen Gould Harmon White, will seek to impose Mosaic legalism on "set free" believers (Galatians 5:1 - why run from Galatians?) in Jesus the Sovereign Lord of Glory. Thank you, Lord Jesus for LIBERTY to do as we OUGHT! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com You miss the point, Arthur. If someone wants to keep the Sabbath, it is there perogative. There is no commandment against the Sabbath in the NT, so one is free to do observe that day if he so chooses. I reject the notion that the Sabbath is obligatory, but neither should anyone be disparaged if they choose to keep it. Salvation is soley based upon Christ and his finished work upon the cross, not upon the day one chooses to observe as a day of rest. Let the whole church say..........AMEN! BTW... quick question shiloh. Are christians obligated to keep sunday holy? I saw another thread in here where a girl was asking whether we're supposed to go to church or not. I know that we're supposed to worship everyday, but are we to keep a day? You obviously know my stance but I'm curious about what you believe. Another question I have is (don't know if this was brought up in this thread already) the fourth commandment says the word remember. I ask this question because I want to know how God requires us to remember something that we didn't already know? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Gee whiz, why not simply READ Exodus 20 itself & discover TO WHOM the ten Commandments were given? Check out Exodus 19: 6 and Exodus 20: 2 for starters. The FACT is that nine of the Ten Commandments are REPEATED by the Apostle Paul re the Church of Jesus Christ in his powerful New Testament Epistles; the one that is NOT repeated for the Church of Jesus Christ comprised of both Jew & Gentile....is the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath observance! Only someone regally ensconced in the 19th-century personal deliberations of one, Ellen Gould Harmon White, will seek to impose Mosaic legalism on "set free" believers (Galatians 5:1 - why run from Galatians?) in Jesus the Sovereign Lord of Glory. Thank you, Lord Jesus for LIBERTY to do as we OUGHT! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com You miss the point, Arthur. If someone wants to keep the Sabbath, it is there perogative. There is no commandment against the Sabbath in the NT, so one is free to do observe that day if he so chooses. I reject the notion that the Sabbath is obligatory, but neither should anyone be disparaged if they choose to keep it. Salvation is soley based upon Christ and his finished work upon the cross, not upon the day one chooses to observe as a day of rest. Let the whole church say..........AMEN! BTW... quick question shiloh. Are christians obligated to keep sunday holy? I saw another thread in here where a girl was asking whether we're supposed to go to church or not. I know that we're supposed to worship everyday, but are we to keep a day? You obviously know my stance but I'm curious about what you believe. Another question I have is (don't know if this was brought up in this thread already) the fourth commandment says the word remember. I ask this question because I want to know how God requires us to remember something that we didn't already know? Thanks in advance We are not obligated to keep any one day holy. We are obligated to keep ourselves holy and to live each day to the Lord. The word for remember in the Hebrew, where the appointed times are concerned, carries with it the connotation of looking back and forward. It is similar to the word Zichron or "memorial." The Sabbath, like the other prophecies are a foreshadowing a dress rehearsal for the end times. More to the point, the Sabbath pointed back to Israel' redemption from slavery, and the creation, but it also pointed forward to the coming of the Messiah, the true Sabbath. From our perspective, the Sabbath points back to our redemption from slavery to sin, and points forward to the world to come, the eternal rest of the new heavens and new earth. The Sabbath is an age within a day. There is no condmenation in keeping the day, if you choose. Whatever you choose, let it be unto the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted December 2, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,088 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 431 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2005 . . .What day of the week was the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted December 2, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,088 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 431 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2005 . . . So the church of Jesus Christ meets for worship on the first day of the week as seen in Acts 2:42. Christians meeting at Troas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted December 2, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,088 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 431 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2005 Nor is sabbath observance a prerequisite to salvation. I believe that if that was not the intent of this thread, we'd not have anything to talk about, for in the 100+ pages of this and a couple of other threads that point has been made over and over and over again. Not for us to judge the keeping of special days or the sabbath. If the sabathians did not argue against that we'd not have anything to discuss. It is always followed up that the scripture is not talking about the weekly sabbath but other special days. It should be up to the individual person to do or not to do, but all should be done to the glory of Jesus the Christ one way or the other. I think the OP wanted to get across the fact that there is no command of a replacement of one holy day for another in the bible. I'm pretty sure that the Catholic church has reason to use the writings of the fathers of their church to support sunday worship, but protestants are not supposed to be about tradition. The claim of the protestant is to allow the bible and the bible alone to have authority over their conscience. So if there is no scriptural reference to a command to change "the assembling" of themselves from the sabbath to another day, then what is the reason protestants worship on sunday? I think i read someone post here that in order to celebrate the resurrection of our lord, Christians worship on "the Lord's day". But you and I know that the bible tells us to celebrate the resurrection via baptism not keeping another day holy. I might be wrong but i think that's what the OP is trying to get across. God bless Nice bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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