Remember the sabath day

[other one]

People keep saying why did we change the sabbath to Sunday and I have not read any posts that says we have. People meet to worship and fellowship on Sunday, but that is not the sabbath, and for me at least when we were going to church regularly and involved in a congregation it was anything but a rest.

What most people have said that I have read is that Jesus transformed the Sabbath into a complete way of life. Making everything His..... every day His.

I would not want of offend anyone, but it appears to me that those who are still wanting to be under the letter of the law just don't understand this concept and when someone tries to explain we get back to the Sunday thing. It is just a circle between changing the sabbath to Sunday and quoting old testament scripture that was mainly written for the Jews worshiping under the commandments given to Moses for the entire nation of Israel.

Give some thought to just what Jesus requires of us, and for me at least it goes far beyond simple belief that He is the Son of the most High Father. When he told of the ways to follow Him, he says that we should hate our family and our very life in comparison as to how much we should love God and give ourselves to Him. I guess I just don't have the expressive skills to get some of you to understand just what living a sabbath is. I'll pray over it and see if He can help me.

Later

Sam

[Pilgrim7]

Shilo,

Peace brother, no need to go to these extremes. Certainly we can distinguish between a fleshly purification law and God's unchangeable Moral Laws written with His own finger.

You wrote:

'Tell me, would and your wife perform those purification laws, or do you not love God's commandments enough to obey Him in that area as well?'

No because it is not part of the Moral Law written in Stone that was to be written in the heart in the 'New Covenant'. As you are aware the Ten Commandments, the 'tables of Testimony' were placed into the Ark of the Covenant or Testimony over which was the 'mercy seat'. They were what defined sin. God dwelt on the mercy seat between the cherubim and forgave the transgressions of His law that was in the Ark. As you know the 'Ark of the Covenant' was in the 'Most Holy Place', which is a symbol of His throne in heaven. This was to designate that the Ten Commandments were in heaven and from heaven. His Law rules in heaven. As the Lord's prayer states, 'thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. None of the purification laws or cerimonial laws were placed in the Ark of the Covenant.

The Lord has not changed His Ten Commandment Laws or done away with them. He magnified them, but changed not a Jot or Tittle. What God makes Holy, remains Holy. What identifies sin continues to identify sin. God has not changed, does not change and cannot change when it comes to moral issues. The purification laws and sacrificial/ceremonial laws were teaching tools to prepare God's people to understand sin and the need of cleansing and staying away from sin and receiving their Saviour. When the Messiah came the Holy Spirit was given to replace those teaching tools. Now God would teach His people direct.

I have no need to convince you of anything. I only respond because you responded to me.

I am only defending God and His Holy Sabbath Day which needs to be restored before Jesus comes back. Look at what Peter says in Acts:

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (2nd Coming)

3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here God is quite clear that Jesus is not coming back until all things that have been written in the Scriptures since the beginning are restored. Since the Prophet Moses wrote about the Sabbath in Genesis 2, then it must be restored before the Jesus returns. You see there was a gret falling away, and all needs to be restored. You see it is the 'man of sin' who presumes to change times and laws, or the time frame of one of the laws.

God Bless,

Dennis

[CarolineS]

Greetings,

I agree, Dennis. I believe there will be a remnant people of God who will restore God's Law before Jesus returns. I look at God's Law as a wall of protection for believers. The law protects us from sin. If we follow His law, sin is kept away or outside of us. All that is holy and good is kept inside.

<Isaiah 58:12>

"Those from among you shall build the old waste places; You shall raise up the foundations of many generations; And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach, The Restorer of Streets to Dwell In."

Some are teaching that God's Law is not for New Testament believers. That God's Law is only for the Jews.

Some say we are under grace, we don't need to worry about the law. There is definitely a breach in the wall that needs to be repaired. I believe God will raise up a remnant in the last days that will restore God's Law including the Sabbath.

<Isaiah 58:13>

"If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord: And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the Lord has spoken."

God promises to bless those who keep the Sabbath.

<Psalm 119:33-35>

"Teach me, O Lord, the way of Your statutes, And I shall keep it to the end. Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;: Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart. Make me walk in the path of Your commandments, For I delight in it."

Ask God for understanding and He will surely give you wisdom and understanding regarding this issue.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Guest shiloh357]

Shilo,

Peace brother, no need to go to these extremes. Certainly we can distinguish between a fleshly purification law and God's unchangeable Moral Laws written with His own finger.

The purification laws were not fleshly, but were part of God's inspired word. They came from God not from man, so they are not "fleshly" by any stretch of the imagination, and if you are going to make carte blanche arguments calling upon people to follow and love God's laws, then you need to be prepared to explain your selective obeidience to God's laws.

You wrote:

'Tell me, would and your wife perform those purification laws, or do you not love God's commandments enough to obey Him in that area as well?'

No because it is not part of the Moral Law written in Stone that was to be written in the heart in the 'New Covenant'. As you are aware the Ten Commandments, the 'tables of Testimony' were placed into the Ark of the Covenant or Testimony over which was the 'mercy seat'. They were what defined sin. God dwelt on the mercy seat between the cherubim and forgave the transgressions of His law that was in the Ark. As you know the 'Ark of the Covenant' was in the 'Most Holy Place', which is a symbol of His throne in heaven. This was to designate that the Ten Commandments were in heaven and from heaven. His Law rules in heaven. As the Lord's prayer states, 'thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. None of the purification laws or cerimonial laws were placed in the Ark of the Covenant.

The Lord has not changed His Ten Commandment Laws or done away with them. He magnified them, but changed not a Jot or Tittle. What God makes Holy, remains Holy. What identifies sin continues to identify sin. God has not changed, does not change and cannot change when it comes to moral issues. The purification laws and sacrificial/ceremonial laws were teaching tools to prepare God's people to understand sin and the need of cleansing and staying away from sin and receiving their Saviour. When the Messiah came the Holy Spirit was given to replace those teaching tools. Now God would teach His people direct.

Number 1. I am not arguing that God has changed His Sabbath. I am arguing that it is not mandatory for believers.

Number 2. The laws of Niddah were not part of the Ten Commandments. That is beside the point. God gave 613 commandments from Sinai. You cannot, from the Scriptures argue that God set aside the laws of Niddah, anymore than anyone can argue that God has invalidated the Sabbath.

Number 3. The Sabbath is also a teaching tool. The entire Torah is represented in Scripture as a schoolmaster. The Sabbath teaches us that there is only one way to God. It teaches us that Salvation is not earned, but is God's gift to us. It teaches us that when receive the Messiah in our hearts, we enter into God's rest. The Sabbath is as much a teaching tool as any other part of the Torah.

None of the purification laws or cerimonial laws were placed in the Ark of the Covenant.

The commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength were not in the ark either. Neither was "Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus said that those were the greatest of the all the commandments. Should we not follow them because they were not in the ark? Are they less important or less worthy of our consideration? You're applying the wrong standards, and in doing so heaping condemnation on those who do not observe the Sabbath.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (2nd Coming)

3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution (restoration) of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Here God is quite clear that Jesus is not coming back until all things that have been written in the Scriptures since the beginning are restored. Since the Prophet Moses wrote about the Sabbath in Genesis 2, then it must be restored before the Jesus returns. You see there was a gret falling away, and all needs to be restored. You see it is the 'man of sin' who presumes to change times and laws, or the time frame of one of the laws.

No, the second coming will occur long before all things are restored. Read Revelation; Messiah comes back, and then everything is restored. That passage is not dealing with second coming. "Times of refreshing" is better rendered as "seasons" of refreshing, and has nothing to do with the second coming. Yours is a misreading of the text.

[Guest yod]

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon[a] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16" 'After this I will return

and rebuild David's fallen tent.

Its ruins I will rebuild,

and I will restore it,

17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,

and all the Gentiles who bear my name,

says the Lord, who does these things'

18that have been known for ages.[c]

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul

[Guest yod]

Then they said to Paul: "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everybody will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality."

clearly, for those who are willing to take an honest look at the scriptures, the Apostles made a distinction between jews and gentile with regard to Torah observance.

If your conviction is to attempt a life of faith by the works of the law, by all means go ahead. But please....it becomes sin when you deny that a NEW COVENANT has been made "NOT LIKE THE ONE I MADE WITH YOUR FATHERS....."

The Torah IS NOT mandatory for gentiles according to the Apostles. Yeah, Moses is read every sabbath...so what?

The Apostles decided that the Holy Spirit would deal with each person on an individual basis and they were inspired by God Himself to make that ruling. Who has been His counselor?

[MK202002]

Christ is the rest and the refreshing, there is no day any more.

They were in the habit of gathering on Sunday in Acts, in the NT, because Sabbath gatherings were soul winning times for Jewish Christians. They would win them on Saterday and take them to church on Sunday. Just a tradition. But yes, we should gather together at least once a week, and sunday works. Back to the sabbath, day of rest:

Colosians 2:13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d]

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

[yomotalking]

wow, cool thanks for the links thats alot of reading.

lol.

Hope my eyes don't fall out!

I know a man who doesn't go to Church, but stays at home and studies.

[BlindSeeker]

Christ is the rest and the refreshing, there is no day any more.

Got a NT verse for that?

They were in the habit of gathering on Sunday in Acts, in the NT, because Sabbath gatherings were soul winning times for Jewish Christians. They would win them on Saterday and take them to church on Sunday. Just a tradition. But yes, we should gather together at least once a week, and sunday works. Back to the sabbath, day of rest.

Really?

Are you sure?

What's the verse?

Are you sure you are reading it correctly?

Colosians 2:13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

What interpretation is that? And where in the scriptures, OT or NT was the Sabbath ever "opposed to us?"

[Guest shiloh357]

Christ is the rest and the refreshing, there is no day any more.

Colosians 2:13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.[d]

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Actually, this passage is not refutation of Sabbath observance at all. The canceled code that was against us was not the commandments of the Torah as is the conventional reasoning.

In the days when Rome was crucifying a person, it was customary to nail a list of the offenses the person being crucified had done to justify their crucifixion. Paul is saying that it was our offenses their prescribed penalties that were nailed to Jesus' cross. God took our sin and imputed them to Jesus by nailing them to his cross.

As for not judging, this was a reference to the Gnostic cult that had infiltrated the Colossian congregation, and in their perverted form of Christianity repudiated all holy days because of their belief that the physical universe was evil. Therefore, anything that sanctifies time, matter, or space in the universe is also evil. Paul is telling them not to submit to false teachings and unbiblical judgements of the Gnostics.