Christmas

[Luther]

1 hour ago, hopper said:

Elements of Christ's Mass have both continued and been forgotten far more than I believe Christ would have us reverently consider. If Christ did not honour it yearly throughout his life I see no reason for us to value it as due worship.

 

I agree with you. But personally I think it would be better to just  respect how others believe on the subject and leave it at that. I'm saying that on my end. I'll tell you though, lately I'm really thinking more about Jesus, fully grown, coming back to take us home. Things are starting to shift towards full darkness. 

Edited January 1 by Luther
Added to it

[farouk]

On 12/28/2024 at 6:48 PM, Tristen said:

My thinking is more along the lines of the following passage:

Romans 14:5-10
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

 

 

Hi @Tristen Romans 14 is often neglected - esp. by those with a zeal for enforcing their legalistic viewpoints.............

[farouk]

On 12/31/2024 at 6:47 PM, hopper said:

Elements of Christ's Mass have both continued and been forgotten far more than I believe Christ would have us reverently consider. If Christ did not honour it yearly throughout his life I see no reason for us to value it as due worship.

 

There is also the angle of the Incarnation (John 1.14; 1 Timothy 3.16).

[Anne2]

On 12/30/2024 at 4:18 PM, Luther said:

There's really not much more for me to say. It is what it is. I'm just not on board with the season like I used to be. Finding out the historical aspect of it and just looking around at all the serious things going on made me draw back, you could say, of being in a festive mood.

I cannot even imagine what it must be like being a Palestinian Christian right now. I'll bet you their hearts are more focused on Christ's coming than his birth. 

Concerning Palestinian (ie Arab) Christians. Many belong to either Roman Catholics, or Orthodox Church. Both celebrate Christmas.

Cutting down trees and decking them with silver and gold were images of their gods, covered over with gold, or silver. Just like God instructed for many things in the temple were wood "overlaid" in Gold. Nothing really to do with a Christmas tree at all

A few examples

Ex 26:32  And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.
Ex 36:34  And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
Ex 36:36  And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
Ex 36:38  And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
Ex 37:2  And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
Ex 37:4  And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
Ex 37:11  And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
Ex 37:15  And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
Ex 37:26  And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
Ex 37:28  And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
 

[Luther]

16 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Concerning Palestinian (ie Arab) Christians. Many belong to either Roman Catholics, or Orthodox Church. Both celebrate Christmas.

Cutting down trees and decking them with silver and gold were images of their gods, covered over with gold, or silver. Just like God instructed for many things in the temple were wood "overlaid" in Gold. Nothing really to do with a Christmas tree at all

A few examples

Ex 26:32  And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of shittim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.
Ex 36:34  And he overlaid the boards with gold, and made their rings of gold to be places for the bars, and overlaid the bars with gold.
Ex 36:36  And he made thereunto four pillars of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold: their hooks were of gold; and he cast for them four sockets of silver.
Ex 36:38  And the five pillars of it with their hooks: and he overlaid their chapiters and their fillets with gold: but their five sockets were of brass.
Ex 37:2  And he overlaid it with pure gold within and without, and made a crown of gold to it round about.
Ex 37:4  And he made staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
Ex 37:11  And he overlaid it with pure gold, and made thereunto a crown of gold round about.
Ex 37:15  And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold, to bear the table.
Ex 37:26  And he overlaid it with pure gold, both the top of it, and the sides thereof round about, and the horns of it: also he made unto it a crown of gold round about.
Ex 37:28  And he made the staves of shittim wood, and overlaid them with gold.
 

Yes, I'm sure there are Christians that would look at the OT and draw some parallels, and recently my heart is in a different place with being over critical of the celebration. 

My point about the Palestinians is this:I have been following the events in the Middle East, not through " legacy" Media, but other sources more intimately involved. I want to be clear when I say this. Observing the number of innocent civilians being murdered and maimed for life is not a question of  "taking sides" or questioning whether Israel has a right to defend itself.

Whatever position a person takes, it's their choice to do so. Whether I agree with it or not, ultimately it is in the hands of Almighty God. What concerns me is LIFE. Let's think about that. God is the creator of LIFE. He doesn't create life with the opinion that some are worthy of life and some aren't. We all have the God given  right to life. 

Jesus Christ is our perfect example of how we should approach life, and living in general. Jesus says:

Matthew 5:9

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Matthew 18:14

Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

In upwards of 50,000 Palestinian civilians have been killed at this point, and over 100,000 maimed for life, mostly Muslims, some Christians, some Jews.  Roughly 70% are women and children. But now the war is going into Lebanon, Syria, and soon Iran. 

When will Christians take the side of God's will to protect life and not destroy it? Why are we funding the destruction of nations? 

Matthew 5:43-45

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

[44]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[45]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

These are the words by which we will be judged. 

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Yes, I'm sure there are Christians that would look at the OT and draw some parallels, and recently my heart is in a different place with being over critical of the celebration. 

My point about the Palestinians is this:I have been following the events in the Middle East, not through " legacy" Media, but other sources more intimately involved. I want to be clear when I say this. Observing the number of innocent civilians being murdered and maimed for life is not a question of  "taking sides" or questioning whether Israel has a right to defend itself.

Whatever position a person takes, it's their choice to do so. Whether I agree with it or not, ultimately it is in the hands of Almighty God. What concerns me is LIFE. Let's think about that. God is the creator of LIFE. He doesn't create life with the opinion that some are worthy of life and some aren't. We all have the God given  right to life. 

Jesus Christ is our perfect example of how we should approach life, and living in general. Jesus says:

Matthew 5:9

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Matthew 18:14

Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

In upwards of 50,000 Palestinian civilians have been killed at this point, and over 100,000 maimed for life, mostly Muslims, some Christians, some Jews.  Roughly 70% are women and children. But now the war is going into Lebanon, Syria, and soon Iran. 

When will Christians take the side of God's will to protect life and not destroy it? Why are we funding the destruction of nations? 

Matthew 5:43-45

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

[44]But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[45]That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

These are the words by which we will be judged. 

The life of Israeli innocents is just as important. Which has suffered death and torture too.

Pray for them all, and not support any nation that kills innocents. Palestinian rulers however just won't stop.

[Luther]

38 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

The life of Israeli innocents is just as important. Which has suffered death and torture too.

Pray for them all, and not support any nation that kills innocents. Palestinian rulers however just won't stop.

Agree. Life is life. But I do believe there are ways of removing terrorists without leveling cities, killing and displacing tens of thousands of people. And the question still remains, when will they stop?

[Anne2]

45 minutes ago, Luther said:

Agree. Life is life. But I do believe there are ways of removing terrorists without leveling cities, killing and displacing tens of thousands of people. And the question still remains, when will they stop?

It will stop when  Hamas is gone from power. Hamas is the one causing this. Then Iran started in. I just think it is sad that Israel has somewhat had one hand tied behind their backs. Dragging it out.

Edited January 4 by Anne2