Selective Rapture

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 There will be a rapture of a watching remnant and ready saints according to Matthew 24.

How's this:  There will not be a rapture of anyone according to the Bible.  No different than what you just posted.

If there is a verse that clearly teaches a rapture, don't just cite a book and chapter, please include the very verse that you believe teaches a rapture.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

According to Revelation 12 a resurrected and rapture man-child is caught up to the throne before the 1,260 days

First, there is NO mention of a resurrection OR rapture in Rev 12.  Second, being "caught up" isn't either.

Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

To be clear, there is NO "man-child".  The Bible reads "male child".  The description of this male child "who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter" is none other than Jesus Christ, who WILL RULE the nations during the Millennial Reign after returning to earth.

Yes, Jesus ascended to heaven after His resurrection.  But this has nothing to do with human beings.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

According to Revelation 14 the whole crop of believers removed from the earth (though not taken to the same place) will consist of firstfruits and harvest. The two reapings being separated by the great tribulation.

There is nothing about believers "removed from the earth".  More imagination.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<< Unless and until you provide actual evidence from Scripture, I'm not interested in your imagination.>>>

  You have some evidence. When asked for your alternative explanations of some things you shrink away.

Nonsense.  All my evidence comes straight from the Bible; chapter and verse, unlike yourself.  You have claims and an imagination.  And I've definitely not shrunk away from any of your claims or questions.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

<<< Do you not realize that the word "beseeching" means to 'pray'?  So you think individual believers can pray for this imagined rapture?  Dream on.>>>

  What the Lord said was to beseech and to live so as to be worthy of our request.   If it were impossible He would not have exhorted us. It is a corporate request. It is a collective prayer. And the Lord said where there is utter harmony we may ask and He will fulfill our petition.

How is any of this related to either the resurrection or a supposed rapture?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

Read yourNew Testament.

For over 25 years, I've been reading through the NT from Acts-Rev monthly.  How many times a year do you read through the NT?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 If you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. (John 15:17) 

And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. (1 John 5:15) 

You may be so hung up on imagining pre-tribulation is cowardly escapism that you cannot see it is the will of God. And we should love one another in such harmony that our prayers have impact and authority.

Once again, there is no rapture before the tribulation, and only resurrection after.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

We are praying for what is important to God. We are praying so as to echo what His's heart's intention is. And there will be a remnant whose petition will be answered.

Are you praying for a pre-trib rapture?  Since the Bible doesn't teach about one, is that really praying "according to His will", per 1 John 5:14?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 You need to see with faith the promises of the New Testament.

I've probably read all the promises way more than you have.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes into Me, the works which I do he shall do also; and greater than these he shall do because I am going to the Father.  And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. (John 4:12-14)

How is this relevant to the discussion of resurrection/rapture?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 A harmony of unity is arrived at in the end times by at least a critical mass of overcomers. That is why it is to the church in Philadelphia that Jesus says He puts before them an open door which no one can shut.  The oneness is among this church of brotherly love (Philadelphia). And to such a remnant of saints living in unity, the promise is given that they will be kept from the  hour of world-wide trial.

The subject is "selective rapture".  So does any of this relate to that?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

  Individually and selfishly, no, I do not think such petition for escape will necessarily be granted.

There will be no escape.  Or the Bible would have clearly said so.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

  I think that the rapture you DON'T believe in is not the rapture that I believe in.

Where is this "rapture" that you believe in?  If you can't provide a verse that clearly teaches what you believe, there is no reason to believe in what you have no evidence for.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

The pop "Left Behind" or "Late Great Planet Earth" rapture that you do not believe in is not the selective rapture we see in the New Testament.

"see"??  Where, specifically?  Why can't you just spit out the chapter and verse(s) that you are "seeing"??

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 Now I have more evidence for you.

Excuse me but so far, you've provided none.  So you didn't need to use "more".

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

But this thread is about a minority of lving overcomers and deceased overcomers will be rewarded with a pre-tribulation rapture or resurrection / rapture.

Which isn't taught anywhere in the Bible.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

The vaster majority of His people will miss this but will  be taken up by the Lord at the end of the GT.

No, that is the ONLY resurrection that the Bible teaches.  I've given you many verses that specifically note only one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Your idea is only a theory without any evidence.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 It is not a matter of our whims, our imagination, or preferences. It is a matter of our readiness for what the Father has ordained and warned His people about.

OK, where has the Father "warned His people about" this "selective rapture"?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 There are two aspects to this minority rapture pre-tribulation. On on hand it is seen as fulfilling the heart's desire of love of the Lamb and His Father. But on the other hand it is seen as strategic advantage in spiritual warfare.

And all without ANY evidence.  Therefore, it doesn't exist.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

On one hand it is for the Triune God's delight. On the other hand it is to form an army to fight along with Christ as His warrior bride. 

Nice sentiment, but it doesn't exist.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

On one hand it is escape from the terrible things which are to come. On the other hand it is a tactical move to drive Satan down from the heavenlies for good. 

It doesn't exist.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

So there is this DUAL nature of purpose of a pre-tribulation rapture.

There is no purpose and no rapture.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

And if you read Revelation 12 carefully you will see that without the rapture of the corporate man-child there is no catalyst for the "short time" to begin as Satan's last ditch attempt stop the kingdom of God from coming to earth.

The ONLY WAY to "read Rev 12 CAREFULLY" is for you to provide specific verses that lead you to the conclusion about this "corporate man-child" and "catalyst".

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

You do not notice this? Look again.

What I clearly notice is your total lack of any biblical evidence for your theories.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they loved not their soul-life even unto death.

Therefore be glad, O heavens and those who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you and has great rage, knowing that he has only a short time. (Rev. 12:11,12)

Still don't see any of your non-biblical words.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

The man-child that is raptured to the throne of God causes the ministering angels to drive Satan down from his accusing activity before God.

Unlike your theory, the Bible speaks of a "male-child" who will "rule the nations with an iron scepter", which is none other than the King, Jesus.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

In Job we see that Satan has always had this ability to both roam the earth and appear before God's throne, blinded by his own pride, yet accusing God's saints on earth.

Irrelevant to the thread's OP.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

This activity will be stopped by a pre-tribulation rapture of some resurrected overcomers from past ages. And at their rapture there is no more room for the accuser of the brothers to have that function. He is henceforth limited to only roam the surface of the earth.

Without any evidence from Scripture, there is no reason to accept any of this.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 So we should seek that this man-child be raptured.

So, how would you "seek that this man-child be raptured".  How does that work?

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

And we who may be living just prior to the 1,260 days also should seek to join them in pre-great tribulation rapture.  It is a matter of what Jesus Christ wants.

Quite the imagination, since there are no verses that support what you claim.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

 I consider your short sightedness and disbelief ignorance of what God wants.

This is hilarious!  You call me "short sighted" and have "ignorant disbelief" when you CAN'T PROVIDE ANY VERSES that support all that you are claiming.  That's rich.

You are asking me to believe what isn't found in Scripture.  For all your claims of chapters, you CAN'T cite ANY verses that say what you say.

This is how I verify the truth of what people claim:

Acts 17:11 - Now the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true.

I've applied this verification method to what you claim and it is clear that what you teach is not true.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

Keep reading and praying for understanding. Perhaps God will also reveal this to you. 

The Berean verification method has thoroughly discredited your claims.  

[Feedmysheep]

In order to better isolate an important matter about your objection, I have started a thread called First Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection.

That is not to ignore other points you made. That is to crystalize what I think is your main point about resurrection more so than rapture. 

[Feedmysheep]

<<<How's this:  There will not be a rapture of anyone according to the Bible.  No different than what you just posted.>>>

I find this short of details. Honing in on 1 Cor. 15:23 I hope you'll bring those ideas of yours to 1 Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection 

<<<First, there is NO mention of a resurrection OR rapture in Rev 12.  Second, being "caught up" isn't either.>>>

   Yes there is by strong implication. They DIED. And they were resurrected and raptured prior to 1,260 days.

   <<<Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.>>>

  Please bring this point over to 1 Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection.

   I respect the point. But I think you are not completely accurate. 

 <<<To be clear, there is NO "man-child". The Bible reads "male child". >>>

  This makes little difference - male or man. 

And she brought forth a child, a man- child. (Rev. 12:5 RcV)

καὶ ἔτεκεν υἱὸν ἄρρενα, ὃς μέλλει ποιμαίνειν

Rendered man-child in reputable English translations: 

KJV -  - And she brought forth a man child,

ASV 1901 - And she was delivered of a son, a man child,

ERV - And she was delivered of a son, a man child,

Douay-Rheims - And she brought forth a man child, 

Mace NT - and she brought forth a man-child, 

Worrell NT - And she brought forth a man-child, 

If you prefer male child it makes no difference.

<<< The description of this male child "who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter" is none other than Jesus Christ, who WILL RULE the nations during the Millennial Reign after returning to earth. >>>

But the overcomers are promised to fulfill the same function as a reward.

Compare: 

Jesus Christ - And out of His mouth proceeds a sharp sword, that with it He might smite the nations; and He will shepherd them with an iron rod; and He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. (Rev. 19:15)

The overcomers - And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;

And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received from My Father; (Rev. 2:26,27) 

Edited January 1 by Feedmysheep

[Feedmysheep]

A  common misconception about the rapture is that irregardless of when it occurs, our Christian walk will have no effect upon it. This is risky. This is presumptious. This is not God's style, so to speak.

I called this thread Selective Rapture to bring out the tone and spirit of too many passages on the matter.  I would say regardless of your pre, post, mid timing, the New Testament hardly gives us any room to think this rapture is SO authomatic that we need not watch spiritually for our abiding in Christ to be taken by Him.

At that time two men will be in the field; one is taken and one is left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.

Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes.

What Christian can assume to think this? "Oh, that watching is for someone ELSE? That warning to watch is for the other guy, not me." 

Not Christian brother or sister. That is a presumption that I think the NT does not allow us - that someone else besides the Christian is being warned.

Unfortuantely, some dear brothers think to point out this tone is go back to the law or justification by works.  It is not. 

Others are seem to miss the warning because they believe God's hands are tied to HAVE to take the whole church universal before the great tribulation,

Others on the opposite view miss the warning because they believe God's hands are tied to have to rapture the whole church universal at the end of the great tribulation.

I am convinced none of these assumptions erase the repetative tone to watch, to abide in Christ, to be in the habit of remaining in the influence of His presence. 

"Remember Lot's wife" says the Lord. She was removed from the place of judgment. Yet she didn't fare so well. She became a monument of salt which isn't just embaressing. 

Selective Rapture means we believers need to take seriously the need deeper than our physical body. Concerning rapture we need to heed the exhortation involving our heart.

 

Edited January 9 by Feedmysheep

[Feedmysheep]

Few places in the Bible allow complacency about being come upon suddenly by the Lord Jesus. Perhaps there are no places in the New or Old Testament either, that give a false confidence that this miracle has only to do with where our body is.

The natural tendency is to assume it is the non-believer only who needs to watch. The more I read the less I see being "rapture ready" is guaranteed simply on the basis of being forgiven of past sins.

Look again at the tone saying "YOUR Lord comes."

Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes. (Matt. 24:42) 

Then the Lord, the Christian's Lord is allegorized as the servant's master - a master of his household.

Who then is the faithful and prudent slave, whom the master has set over his household to give them food at the proper time?

Blessed is that slave whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. (Matt. 24:45,46) 

Also the Lord speaks here not of a bosterious announcement of His intention to steal something precious. But our unawareness of the time of His coming must be supplemented with vigilance for its sudden event.

But know this, that if the householder had known in which watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.

For this reason you also be ready, because at an hour when you do not expect it, the Son of Man is coming. (vs.44,43) 

Who among us believers can afford to miss this tone? Who among us can say "Oh, this is speaking to someone else and surely not us Christians." ?

When some see the word  "Selective" in Selective Rapture they must realize this is beyond solely a WHEN issue. I  mean it involves a moral selectivity and not just a timing matter.

 

 

Edited January 9 by Feedmysheep

[FreeGrace]

On 1/1/2025 at 10:24 AM, Feedmysheep said:

In order to better isolate an important matter about your objection, I have started a thread called First Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection.

That is not to ignore other points you made. That is to crystalize what I think is your main point about resurrection more so than rapture. 

I just found this response.  One of my main points is that there are no verses that describe a "rapture", meaning Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.  Since there aren't any, there is nothing to believe about "rapture", since it doesn't exist in Scripture.

Only through speculation, conjecture and guessing, does one accept the teaching about a rapture.

[FreeGrace]

On 1/1/2025 at 2:30 PM, Feedmysheep said:

<<<How's this:  There will not be a rapture of anyone according to the Bible.  No different than what you just posted.>>>

I find this short of details. Honing in on 1 Cor. 15:23 I hope you'll bring those ideas of yours to 1 Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection

I may already be on that thread.  Sorry I missed these "New Year's" posts.  The only thing that is missing from what I am quoted above is any verse that describes a rapture of anyone at any time.  How's that for thoroughness?

On 1/1/2025 at 2:30 PM, Feedmysheep said:

 

<<<First, there is NO mention of a resurrection OR rapture in Rev 12.  Second, being "caught up" isn't either.>>>

   Yes there is by strong implication. They DIED. And they were resurrected and raptured prior to 1,260 days.

Everyone dies.  No big deal.  And all souls go to one of two places:  the saved are "at home with Jesus" per 2 Cor 5:6,8 and the unsaved go to Hades, awaiting the GWT.

There are no deaths that "implicate" a rapture.  What WOULD implicate a rapture is resurrection, yet in EVERY passage about the resurrection of the saved, there are NO descriptions of Jesus taking any resurrected person to heaven.

On 1/1/2025 at 2:30 PM, Feedmysheep said:

   <<<Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.>>>

  Please bring this point over to 1 Cor. 15:23 and Selective Resurrection.

   I respect the point. But I think you are not completely accurate. 

OK if you don't think I'm accurate.  I am accurate to say there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.  Oh, btw, the 2 witnesses of Rev 11 are most likely the 2 OT prophets were never died physically, but were just "taken up".  That is not a resurrection, or that would nullify 1 Cor 15:23, plus they wouldn't be albe to die again during the Tribulation. 

And when they arise and to go heaven after 3.5 days dead body, the Bible doesn't make clear that they were resurrected into immoral bodies.  I believe they will be resurrected into immortal bodies at the Second Advent, as 1 Cor 15:23 describes.

On 1/1/2025 at 2:30 PM, Feedmysheep said:

 <<<To be clear, there is NO "man-child". The Bible reads "male child". >>>

  This makes little difference - male or man. 

And she brought forth a child, a man- child. (Rev. 12:5 RcV)

This simply identifies which GENDER the child is.  A male.

On 1/1/2025 at 2:30 PM, Feedmysheep said:

<<< The description of this male child "who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter" is none other than Jesus Christ, who WILL RULE the nations during the Millennial Reign after returning to earth. >>>

But the overcomers are promised to fulfill the same function as a reward.

I never said they won't.  But none of them are THE King.

On 1/1/2025 at 2:30 PM, Feedmysheep said:

 

 

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

A  common misconception about the rapture is that irregardless of when it occurs, our Christian walk will have no effect upon it. This is risky. This is presumptious. This is not God's style, so to speak.

It seems that what is really presumptuous is making claims that the Bible doesn't make.  There is zero evidence for any kind of rapture.  

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

I called this thread Selective Rapture to bring out the tone and spirit of too many passages on the matter.

Every one of these "too many passages" requires conjecture.  There are no straight ward verses in plain language.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

  I would say regardless of your pre, post, mid timing, the New Testament hardly gives us any room to think this rapture is SO authomatic that we need not watch spiritually for our abiding in Christ to be taken by Him.

Every saved person (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes". Straightforward and plain language.  No mention of a rapture to heaven.

4 hours ago, Feedmysheep said:

I am convinced none of these assumptions erase the repetative tone to watch, to abide in Christ, to be in the habit of remaining in the influence of His presence. 

"Remember Lot's wife" says the Lord. She was removed from the place of judgment. Yet she didn't fare so well. She became a monument of salt which isn't just embaressing. 

Selective Rapture means we believers need to take seriously the need deeper than our physical body. Concerning rapture we need to heed the exhortation involving our heart.

Remember what occurs WHEN the saints from heaven who will be accompanying Christ back to earth;  wedding supper.  The only logical placement of the Bema is AFTER the defeat at Armageddon and the wedding supper.  Believers will be evaluated for "whatever they have done while in their bodies, whether GOOD or BAD" per 2 Cor 5:10.

So abiding in Christ prepares the believer for reward at the Bema.  

Rewards have nothing to do with resurrection.  1 Cor 15:23 is very clear;  all believers will be resurrected at the same event:  "when He comes".

Reward will be issued at the Bema.

[Feedmysheep]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I just found this response.  One of my main points is that there are no verses that describe a "rapture", meaning Jesus taking resurrected believers to heaven.  Since there aren't any, there is nothing to believe about "rapture", since it doesn't exist in Scripture.

Only through speculation, conjecture and guessing, does one accept the teaching about a rapture.

When verses are shown to you it is as if you have eyes to see but cannot see.

And your way of finding some problem with every other sentence I write reveals more to me a will power resistance to seeing. 

There is such a thing as accurate "speculation" and true "conjecture" and inference to the best explanation. 

If John says He saw a Lamb standing, you probably have no problem undertstanding that that means the Redeemer, the slain and resurrected Christ. 

If John says he saw 144,000 singing saints whose voice came out of heaven and they are before the Lamb, the elders, and the four living creatures, now that is guessing, speculation, conjecture. 

I don't buy that. The sign is clear. Saved people who followed the Lamb find themselves standing before Jesus Christ in Heaven.

If John says he saw a great multitude in heaven you say that they were raptured is speculatin, conjecture, guessing. 

I don't buy that. The face value meaning is that a great multitude found themselves taken to heaven. 

So I think your skepticism is selective. There must be some a priori commitment to some strongly held belief that influences a prejudicial view that any other evidence of it is guess work - Ie. "But where's the verses? You haven't shown me the verses."

I guess you're just not ready to see the verses yet. Or maybe if you believe them you'll think there is some assumption that you'll have to change your mind about. 

 

Edited January 9 by Feedmysheep

[Feedmysheep]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

 

<<<Remember what occurs WHEN the saints from heaven who will be accompanying Christ back to earth;  wedding supper.>>>

So here you admit that some saints are there in heaven. But you say there is no rapture. 

I think you taught that dead saints are in heaven. This makes God more the God of death than the God of life.   The evidence of the Bible is that God does not want and we also SHOULD not want to appear in heaven unclothed, naked, without a transfigured body.  That discussion is in Second Corinthians.

So you admit saints in heaven ready to come down with Christ. But I say they GOT THERE by what we call Rapture, that is guessing, conjecture,. "Where's the verses ??"  They are staring you right in the face.

<<<  The only logical placement of the Bema is AFTER the defeat at Armageddon and the wedding supper. >>>

No it is not. But I used to believe something like that for a long time. Eventually I changed. The Bema judgment seat of Christ must be in the  air for all the saints BEFORE the reward of accompanying Christ down to this victory is the reward to the overcoming  ones. 

 So, I would teach that the judgment seat of Christ takes place BEFORE the bridal army accompanies Christ down from the cloud pavillion to tread the winepress of God's wrath at Armageddon.

<<< Believers will be evaluated for "whatever they have done while in their bodies, whether GOOD or BAD" per 2 Cor 5:10.>>>

Yes. And that evaluation will occur BEFORE He grants the reward to come down from the pavillion cloud to defeat Antichrist. 

The mighty ones who accompany Christ down from the sky are rewarded saints. 

Compare Joel's prophecy and John's vision: 

(Joel 3:11-13) Hurry and come, / All you surrounding nations, / And be gathered. / There cause Your mighty ones to descend, O Jehovah!

JLet the nations rouse themselves and come up / To the valley of Jehoshaphat. / For there I will sit to judge / All the surrounding nations.

Send forth the sickle, / For the harvest is ripe; / Come, tread, / For the winepress is full; / The wine vats overflow, / For their evil is great. 

(Rev. 19:14-16) And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of His mouth proceeds a sharp sword, that with it He might smite the nations; and He will shepherd them with an iron rod; and He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

And He has on His garment and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

<<<So abiding in Christ prepares the believer for reward at the Bema.>>>  

I'm glad that  we agree on that.

Above I have tried to show you it is REWARDED ones as "mighty ones" or His victoruious bridal army which comes down to the Holy Land in Israel. It is very practical. Joel mentions the geographic location to which Christ and His mighty ones descend. 

Now, Rapture in Luke 17:36,37 indicates that the ones taken (overcoming watchful ones) are taken to the place where birds of prey descend upon the carcus of one slain.

When the disciples ask Jesus about where these raptured ones are taken it is to Armageddon. He bypasses saying they are taken to heaven because that is a temporary station on their way down with Him as His bridal army. 

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.

And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together. (Luke 17:36,37)

Surely, no dead corpses are in heaven. Christ must be referring to the one who is so DEAD in every sense -spiritually and actually.

Matt. 24:27,28 - For just as the lightning comes forth from the east and shines to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Wherever the corpse is, there will the vultures be gathered together.

The overcoming watching ones are taken before the great spectacular supernatural calamity. That is they are raptured in a secretive removal before the great tribulatoin. Then after 3.5 years they come down to be with Christ near the earth. There with the whole church raptured at the end of the GT, the selected mighty ones descend with magnificient splendour to Armageddon. So the decision is made before He descends. 

More will be explained below. 

 

<<<Rewards have nothing to do with resurrection.  1 Cor 15:23 is very clear;  all believers will be resurrected at the same event:  "when He comes".>>>

Reward will be issued at the Bema.