Selective Rapture

[FreeGrace]

17 hours ago, Locust said:

two other men died that day .hung the same way Jesus was . were they wiped the same as Jesus ?

"wiped"??  Huh??

17 hours ago, Locust said:

we don't know its not in the narrative .

So let's not speculate.

17 hours ago, Locust said:

i have done enough research into what happens to the human body when hung in different ways . the Romans were well practiced in the art of torcher ,

I'm sure it wasn't nearly as complete as what Lee Strobel.  He was a professional at gathering FACTS and EVIDENCE.

17 hours ago, Locust said:

if you are thinking Jesus was the first man to ever be hungup, i assure you he was not.

Why would you think I thought such a strange idea?

17 hours ago, Locust said:

nor was he the last . its really very simple ,how long do you want the torcher to last ?   hours or days? 

You're failing to make a point.  He didn't die from crucifixion.  The Bible TELLS us how He died and I backed that up with what He said in John 10 about it.

The FACT that He died much sooner than the other 2 shows that He didn't die from crucifixion, as they did.  He dismissed His spirit. 

He was fully in charge the whole time He was on the cross.  Up to the moment He left on His terms.

[FreeGrace]

7 hours ago, Michael37 said:

FreeGrace said:

So the death He died wasn't physical but spiritual.

Not according to God's Word

1Pe 3:18  For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

Nice.  However, please then explain HOW He could have said "tetelestai" in the perfect indicative tense.  According to Dan Wallace, author of Greek Grammar:  Beyond the Basics, the perfect indicative "speaks of an event in the past with results existing afterwards - the perfect speaking of results existing in the present".  p.572-3

Another Greek scholar, Moulton, points out the perfect tense is "the most important, exegetically, of all the Greek tenses."  p.573

"Or as Zerwick puts it, the perfect tense is used for "indicating not the poast action as such but the present state of affairs resulting from the past action."  p.573

Point is:  the ONLY REASON Jesus could use the perfect tense is because He had ALREADY PAID the sin debt for humanity.

The ancient Greeks used the word the way we use the phrase "paid in full" today.

His actions on the cross (death for our sins) was a completed action when He said it.

If His physical death was necessary to pay our sin debt, He could not have said what He did.

We also know that the death that paid our sins was spiritual because He asked in an instructive way (to us) "My God, My God, WHY have YOU forsaken Me?".

Physically, death is separation of soul and body, per James 2:26.  Spiritually, death is separation from God.  Jesus was clearly separated from the other Members of the Trinity while He was on the cross bearing our sin.  No doubt about it.

[Locust]

29 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

"wiped"??  Huh??

So let's not speculate.

I'm sure it wasn't nearly as complete as what Lee Strobel.  He was a professional at gathering FACTS and EVIDENCE.

Why would you think I thought such a strange idea?

You're failing to make a point.  He didn't die from crucifixion.  The Bible TELLS us how He died and I backed that up with what He said in John 10 about it.

The FACT that He died much sooner than the other 2 shows that He didn't die from crucifixion, as they did.  He dismissed His spirit. 

He was fully in charge the whole time He was on the cross.  Up to the moment He left on His terms.

''The FACT that He died much sooner than the other 2 shows that He didn't die from crucifixion, as they did.  He dismissed His spirit. ''

to that thought he could of given it up with out being hung up

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Locust said:

''The FACT that He died much sooner than the other 2 shows that He didn't die from crucifixion, as they did.  He dismissed His spirit. ''

to that thought he could of given it up with out being hung up

There is no "He could of".  We know WHAT He did, and we know WHY He did it.  The Bible tells us.  God's plan required a legal execution, which is why none of the desires of the Jews to kill Him worked out.  He went through a legal execution.  

You still haven't made any point of significance about why a pole should be used rather than a cross.

[Locust]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

There is no "He could of".  We know WHAT He did, and we know WHY He did it.  The Bible tells us.  God's plan required a legal execution, which is why none of the desires of the Jews to kill Him worked out.  He went through a legal execution.  

You still haven't made any point of significance about why a pole should be used rather than a cross.

did you just disagree with your self ?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

FreeGrace said:

There is no "He could of".  We know WHAT He did, and we know WHY He did it.  The Bible tells us.  God's plan required a legal execution, which is why none of the desires of the Jews to kill Him worked out.  He went through a legal execution.  

You still haven't made any point of significance about why a pole should be used rather than a cross.

did you just disagree with your self ?

No.  I pointed out what you  haven't clearly made a point about your claim of a pole vs a cross.  So, what is the big deal?

[Locust]

https://i.postimg.cc/rw709r9H/main-qimg-282d0226ce65c42602ce6e9e5821e5dc-lq.jpg

The Torment of Marsyasits a carving in  marble illustrating how it was that someone was crucified . not on a cross 

 

Edited January 20 by Locust

[Locust]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

No.  I pointed out what you  haven't clearly made a point about your claim of a pole vs a cross.  So, what is the big deal?

the big deal is you have been deceived into believing Jesus died on a cross. when you find out that he died on a pole ,no cross bar ,what will you do?

[Michael37]

22 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

If His physical death was necessary to pay our sin debt, He could not have said what He did.

I was raised on this verbal and response in the liturgy we said every Sunday: "His death we show forth, His resurrection we proclaim", taken from these verses

1Co 11:24  And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 
1Co 11:25  After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 
1Co 11:26  For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 

From my notes:

The Finished Work of the Cross Doctrine is a theological concept rooted in the belief that Jesus Christ's atoning work on the cross was complete and sufficient for the reconciliation of humanity to God. This doctrine emphasizes that through Christ's death, all necessary work for salvation was accomplished once and for all1.

Key points of this doctrine include:

• Completion: Jesus' declaration, "It is finished" (John 19:30), signifies that His work of atonement was fully accomplished.

• Sufficiency: The sacrifice of Christ is seen as sufficient to cover all sins, past, present, and future.

• Unconditional Grace: It underscores the belief in God's unconditional grace, meaning that salvation is a gift that cannot be earned but is freely given through faith in Christ's finished work.

This doctrine is central to many Christian denominations and is often contrasted with views that suggest ongoing atonement or additional works are necessary for salvation.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Locust said:

https://i.postimg.cc/rw709r9H/main-qimg-282d0226ce65c42602ce6e9e5821e5dc-lq.jpg

The Torment of Marsyasits a carving in  marble illustrating how it was that someone was crucified . not on a cross 

 

Big deal.  How come EVERY depiction of Jesus is on a cross, NOT a pole?

And WHY the big deal that He died on a pole away?