Selective Rapture

[FreeGrace]

7 minutes ago, Indentured Servant said:

Agreed. The majority of debates and/or arguments are based on differing interpretations, not so much on word for word translation... (But, a bad translation can lead to a whole different set of interpretations, speculations, etc.)

 

My point is that when 2 people are speaking the same language, we don't need to "interpret".  That's where people get to claim their own interpretation for verses.

For example, Arminians believe that salvation can be lost.  So they use the "warning passages" as verses that teach their view, even though none of the verses even mention loss of salvation.  They have to assume the loss refers to salvation.  That's how people use verses to support their view even though the verse doesn't.

All the warning passages are warning of either God's divine discipline for bad behavior, or loss of eternal reward for bad behavior.  

Example:  Calvinists claim that election is to salvation, even though there are no verses that say that.  In fact, in all the verses that include the purpose of God for electing, it is always to service.  But Calvinists read their theology into those verses to support their view when the verses clearly don't support their view.

People need to quit trying to "interpret" verses and simply accept the plain words of the verse.  Then we'd all be on the same page.

[Indentured Servant]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

People need to quit trying to "interpret" verses and simply accept the plain words of the verse.  Then we'd all be on the same page.

It would certainly help. Too many "itching ears" these days looking for differences in belief, rather than similarity in practice.

I've encountered a number of believers on various online forums who believe the discussion of scripture should be done using hermeneutics and proper exegetics, and not just read straight from Scripture.

One of the points I didn't make as clearly as I'd hoped to, is that two people can hear the same verse of scripture read and have two different conclusions as to what it means... That would be a simple example of interpretation. I see more confusion due to translation errors.

 

[Locust]

what i find is people read the Bible and find a person writing to some others  who are also elect that will be going to heaven . then today people that are not elect read the words  and assume it applies to them as well.

the vast number of people will be here on earth having been resurrected to live again  . Resurrection should begin not long after armageddon was completed . thus begins the 1000 year rule over the earth .

the last to die would be the first to be resurrected . which makes sense as there will be a need for them to be teachers about how the kingdom goverment  rules the earth

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

It would certainly help. Too many "itching ears" these days looking for differences in belief, rather than similarity in practice.

AMEN!

3 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

I've encountered a number of believers on various online forums who believe the discussion of scripture should be done using hermeneutics and proper exegetics, and not just read straight from Scripture.

Kinda sounds like these people don't want to hear the "plain truth".

3 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

One of the points I didn't make as clearly as I'd hoped to, is that two people can hear the same verse of scripture read and have two different conclusions as to what it means... That would be a simple example of interpretation. I see more confusion due to translation errors.

Exactly.  At least one of them is trying to "interpret" the Word, rather than just letting Scripture speak for itself.  

I believe the important things are straightforward and in plain language.  

[Locust]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I don't agree with many of the statements in your post. I do not like to support statements that are not projected in the reading of the scriptures. 

The time will come that our body will not be able to sustained life anymore and it will die on us. 

And what are you trying to say? What about this body that was not able to breathe and was not able circulate the blood and it died from the lost of blood. 

And it died with not working lungs. And not working valves in the heart and blocked arteries and unable to maintain healthy kidneys and liver. Are you preaching that someone is waiting to get this body back and live. Are you?  What are you trying to say because it came out this way. 

 

ok sure i'm not a bit surprised you dont know anything about what i've said . people go to church ,they are told somethings that are not true ,it feels good like oh boy I don't really die when I die.  (do you remember when and where that was first said ? try Genesis 3:4)

yet thats not Gods plan. the promises made is people living even forever under the kingdom rule .

[Locust]

perhaps you have said these words ''Matthew 6:10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.''

[FreeGrace]

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus said "tetelestai" and died.

Fact: This is the last word he said.

The last word recorded.  But I believe it was the last word.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

In this example and at that specific time Jesus died without saying why he said that. 

Huh?  Why would Jesus explain why He said what He said?  His words are quite clear.  The Greek word was used in business and meant "paid in full".  So He did explain what He had just done;  He paid the sin debt of humanity in full.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The question is to the specific people who were living at that time how did they understood what Jesus said?

Greek was the common language of the time.  Everyone fully understood what He said and what that meant.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 And then how they understood what Jesus said after they heard that at that specific time the veil in the Temple was torn twain from top to the bottom.

I'm sure the priests in the temple had a lot to consider, given the curtain has been described as being 20' tall and 2' thick.  So it was obvious that it was a miracle.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

At that time Jesus cried out tetelestai and he died and at that time a great earthquake took place that shook everything and the veil of the Temple was torn twain. 

The facts are as follows: 

The time Jesus cried out his last word tetelestai 

as soon as he drank the shour wine and he died. 

At that time a great darkness fall upon the earth and that place and a great earthquake shook the place and everything was shaken and the veil was torn twain from top to bottom.

Fact:  the great darkness lasted for 3 hours while Jesus was bearing the sins of humanity.  Some scholars believe that the scene was so horrible God "turned off the lights".

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Did the people at that time had enough to connect the tetelestai, the last word of Jesus with the veil torn twain from top to bottom. From the earthquake that shook everything and from the darkness that fall upon the earth and the place where everything took place.

Yes, they did.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

And the bonus event that the darkness lasted for three hours.  

It is about them with what they had at that time and that what they had at that time and the words of Jesus who had spoken to them earlier and just before his arrest by the soldiers.

No, it is about who Jesus was and what He did on the cross.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The veil was torn twain from top to bottom. At that specific time when Jesus said "tetelestai".

The people present weren't aware that the curtain was being torn.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

This they understood everyone the Jews and the scribes and the High Priest that they can not longer continue the worship done in the Temple. They can't continue with the sacrifices and the Atonements of the Law that the Lord cannot descend on top of the Cherub because the ceremonies required the veil to be closed and in place as it was before it was torn.

It is clear that opening the Holy of Holies by the torn curtain showed that temple worship with its animal sacrifice was no longer relevant.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus also told them that it will happen in their life time when he said to them that they will die in their sins if they did not believe in him.

Jesus' comment continues to be relevant today, not just in their lifetime.  Forgiveness of sins has always been through faith in the Messiah.

57 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Tetelestai to the Old Covenant of Sinai and the beginning of the New Covenant forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ sacrifice and the shedding of his blood. 

this is the blood of the New Covenant. Which will be shed for the forgiveness of many sins. Tetelestai for one Covenant with the beginning of the New Covenant. 

Salvation has always been through faith in the Messiah.  In the OT, the people looked forward to the cross.  In the NT, we look back to the cross.

[Locust]

Mark 14:62

 Then Jesus said: “I am; and you will see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”c

Luke 20:43

''until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’

have his enemies been put under his feet or should we expect more? me thinks there is more to come before i could say he is ruling as king.

soon very soon.

 

[FreeGrace]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Do you think that Jesus is not ruling now? And He has been for quite some time. 

No, He is still in heaven, waiting to return to earth to set up His Millennial Kingdom.  He is the King of kings and Lord of lords.  And when He returns, He will "rule the nations with a rod of iron".  

Paul tells believers to STOP grieving (Eph 4:30) and STOP quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.  Do you think Jesus is ruling when believers do these things?

[Locust]

16 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Salvation has always been through faith in the Messiah.  In the OT, the people looked forward to the cross.  In the NT, we look back to the cross.

looks  like    someone is making things up