Jews, Jewish Christians, and the New Covenant Era

[jeremiah1five]

14 hours ago, Luther said:

You said: " I am a Biblical Christian. "

If you believe that you are a Biblical Christian, and what you consider to be Biblical is correct, then the overwhelming majority of those who confess Jesus Christ are deceiving themselves. And this would include all Gentiles throughout history including the likes of John Calvin and Martin Luther. Really?

As I understand the Biblical record, God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed. But the inheritance of the Promises given to Abraham passed to Isaac - not Ishmael, to Jacob - not Esau. 

God also scattered His people throughout the then-known world through conquest and exile as well as fleeing with their lives into Gentile lands. Whether through disobedience, war and rape, concubinage, marriage, fornication, and adultery, and slavery, Hebrews/Jews did mingle with the "goy" and not only learned their ways but also had offspring. And yes, God does keep His Promises and those of mixed heritage (Jew-Gentile) like Samaritans - are still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (Gal. 3:29.) I do not find God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles in Scripture (Old Testament.) And when Israel found herself in the New Covenant era the atonement accomplished by Jesus Christ as Lamb of God was sacrificed according to the Law and the salvation of the Lord was made salvation of the Jews. 

As long as the person's name was in the book of life of the Lamb slain, they were promised redemption, and we see that redemption played out historically and through Scripture. The Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets records God and His dealings with the Hebrew people. Yes, there were those who had relationship with God before the Abraham Covenant, those who "called upon the Lord" (meaning, worship) were the "sons of God" in Genesis 6, even earlier in Seth, Adam and his wife, Eve.

Ishmael might be Abraham's seed, and he might even have been atoned because he and others were Abraham's seed, Saul understood what it meant for Jesus Christ to die a substitutionary death to Passover and atone the sins of the children of Israel and all those who are named in the book of life of the Lamb - including Calvin and Martin Luther and others. The Lord knows them that are His. As long as they were Abraham's seed, they were heirs according to the Promise. And those promises were passed to Isaac, then Jacob, and to his sons, etc. 

We, who are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise might have at least one Hebrew parent in our ancestry, and we might even live as Gentiles do, but God promised the Holy Spirit of Promise to Israel, even Israel of mixed heritage.

 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

Those who were under the Law were Hebrew, not Gentile. Therefore, according to Joel, the Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to Israel. God never promised His Spirit to non-Hebrews (Gentiles.)

 

 

[Anne2]

5 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

Yes, some say that.

Scripture says it.

 

5 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

However, there is only one covenant which is multifaceted. 

This is rabbinic notions. It was harmful then, I believe it is harmful now, and will continue to be harmful. 

Multifaceted because these are wills of inheritance. Which are of two kinds. Heirs, which among them one is firstborn giving him the birthright. Which both exist together in the Genesis 15 covenant. Genesis 17 (birthright) is in effect first, and continues operating within/under the covenant of Genesis 15, put into effect 400 years later..

I believe you can see two facets to that. The firstborn of Genesis 17, is not on the same terms as the firstborn by the law.

Gen 17 by God's choice, before they have done any good or bad. And gen 15, by the order of their natural birth...

Ge 25:23  And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

And Gen 15, by the order of their natural birth...

15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
16  Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:
 

So two sources of firstborn existing in the covenant made in Genesis 15, which coming into effect 400 years later cannot disanull the covenant birthright of Gen 17. so yes we see the dichotomy, or as you say these two facets existing

Acts speaks of these things. None inheritance to Abraham....Gen 15

Acts 7:2  And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3  And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4  Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5  And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.
6  And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7  And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.

 

The covenant of Gen 17 in circumcision begat Isaac......

act 7:8  And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

5 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

The Jews that remained where they lived while a small remnant returned to Israel needed to know that the "Prophet like unto Moses" was sent and departed. This was the message.

You are leaving out a massive piece.

John's baptism. A prophet to warn them to flee of the coming wrath upon Israel. Salvation from God's wrath coming to them at that time...

Until we can agree on the very basics, How can we go forward to seek agreement?

Abraham dies in Gen 15

15  And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. clear until the 4th generation dies. The natural death all men die in Adam......

The land promise comes into effect..... by Moses...

 

 

 

[Luther]

6 hours ago, jeremiah1five said:

As I understand the Biblical record, God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed. But the inheritance of the Promises given to Abraham passed to Isaac - not Ishmael, to Jacob - not Esau. 

God also scattered His people throughout the then-known world through conquest and exile as well as fleeing with their lives into Gentile lands. Whether through disobedience, war and rape, concubinage, marriage, fornication, and adultery, and slavery, Hebrews/Jews did mingle with the "goy" and not only learned their ways but also had offspring. And yes, God does keep His Promises and those of mixed heritage (Jew-Gentile) like Samaritans - are still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise (Gal. 3:29.) I do not find God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles in Scripture (Old Testament.) And when Israel found herself in the New Covenant era the atonement accomplished by Jesus Christ as Lamb of God was sacrificed according to the Law and the salvation of the Lord was made salvation of the Jews. 

As long as the person's name was in the book of life of the Lamb slain, they were promised redemption, and we see that redemption played out historically and through Scripture. The Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets records God and His dealings with the Hebrew people. Yes, there were those who had relationship with God before the Abraham Covenant, those who "called upon the Lord" (meaning, worship) were the "sons of God" in Genesis 6, even earlier in Seth, Adam and his wife, Eve.

Ishmael might be Abraham's seed, and he might even have been atoned because he and others were Abraham's seed, Saul understood what it meant for Jesus Christ to die a substitutionary death to Passover and atone the sins of the children of Israel and all those who are named in the book of life of the Lamb - including Calvin and Martin Luther and others. The Lord knows them that are His. As long as they were Abraham's seed, they were heirs according to the Promise. And those promises were passed to Isaac, then Jacob, and to his sons, etc. 

We, who are born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise might have at least one Hebrew parent in our ancestry, and we might even live as Gentiles do, but God promised the Holy Spirit of Promise to Israel, even Israel of mixed heritage.

 4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.

Those who were under the Law were Hebrew, not Gentile. Therefore, according to Joel, the Holy Spirit of Promise was promised to Israel. God never promised His Spirit to non-Hebrews (Gentiles.)

 

 

 

You said: " As I understand the Biblical record, God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his Hebrew seed. But the inheritance of the Promises given to Abraham passed to Isaac - not Ishmael, to Jacob - not Esau."

Let's follow this out with God's word:

 Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

( Here's the phrase " all Israel". God's word has taken effect in that not all that are from Israel become Israel ( not physically in the 12 tribes but spiritually through Christ).

[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 

( There are children of God that do not have Hebrew roots. "The seed of Isaac" is the representation of the remnant of all nations of people in Christ. Follow out the logic. If you are of the seed of Abraham, then you must be of the seed of Isaac since Isaac comes from Abraham. But the scripture says "but, in Isaac". Well how can we be of the seed of Isaac but not of the seed of Abraham? It can only be a spiritual reference.)

[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

( Please tell me that you can see this. The children of the flesh are the Hebrew bloods. God is saying right here that they are not the children of God. Who are the children of God? THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE. What's the promise?

Galatians 3:22 KJV
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

" Them that believe" would of course include those of Hebrew descent. Jesus went to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles. The REMNANT is one big happy mixed family. The literal "remnant of the tribe of Judah" is from whom Christ came, and the spiritual "remnant of Judah" is to whom Christ will come.)