Romans 11 Revisited.... again.

[Luther]

I am amazed at how many well meaning christians believe that Romans 11 has to do with a whole nation of people. It's as if nothing in the chapter has any relevance until we get to verse 26:

" And so all Israel shall be saved...."

What would that mean anyway? Every jew that lives in Israel (the nation) only? Every jew on the face of the earth? What does " all" include?

First let's back up a little and examine the word "so":

"So" ( Strong's #3779)

Transliteration: houtō

From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that after (in) this manner as even (so) for all that like (-wise) no more on this fashion (-wise) so (in like manner) thus what.

KJV Usage: so (164x), thus (17x), even so (9x), on this wise (6x), likewise (4x), after this manner (3x)

And " In this manner" all Israel shall be saved.

In what manner? If we go back to the beginning of the chapter, we see who God considers to be "His people". He is very specific:

Romans 11:1-7

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

[2]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

[3]Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

[4]But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

[5]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

[6]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

[7]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The " election" is a chosen remnant of those from all nations who will obtain an eternal inheritance:

1 Peter 1:2,4

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
[4]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

" All Israel" is the remnant from the fulness or " completion" of the nations, when the very last person ordained to eternal life becomes saved. 

Romans 11:26

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Where is it written?

Isaiah 59:20-21

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

[21]As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

This " covenant" of God's Spirit not departing out of the mouth of the seed of Jacob " henceforth and for ever" is a reference to each and every person in Christ. It's for ever. This covenant therefore must include everyone because there is only one covenant or agreement that's eternal. 

Isaiah 45:22-23,25

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

[23]I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

(Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;)

 

[25]In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

" all " the seed of Israel is " justified":

Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

[Dennis1209]

On 2/2/2025 at 4:50 PM, Luther said:

I am amazed at how many well meaning christians believe that Romans 11 has to do with a whole nation of people. It's as if nothing in the chapter has any relevance until we get to verse 26:

" And so all Israel shall be saved...."

What would that mean anyway? Every jew that lives in Israel (the nation) only? Every jew on the face of the earth? What does " all" include?

First let's back up a little and examine the word "so":

"So" ( Strong's #3779)

Transliteration: houtō

From G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows): - after that after (in) this manner as even (so) for all that like (-wise) no more on this fashion (-wise) so (in like manner) thus what.

KJV Usage: so (164x), thus (17x), even so (9x), on this wise (6x), likewise (4x), after this manner (3x)

And " In this manner" all Israel shall be saved.

In what manner? If we go back to the beginning of the chapter, we see who God considers to be "His people". He is very specific:

Romans 11:1-7

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

[2]God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

[3]Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

[4]But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

[5]Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

[6]And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

[7]What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The " election" is a chosen remnant of those from all nations who will obtain an eternal inheritance:

1 Peter 1:2,4

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
[4]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

" All Israel" is the remnant from the fulness or " completion" of the nations, when the very last person ordained to eternal life becomes saved. 

Romans 11:26

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Where is it written?

Isaiah 59:20-21

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

[21]As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

This " covenant" of God's Spirit not departing out of the mouth of the seed of Jacob " henceforth and for ever" is a reference to each and every person in Christ. It's for ever. This covenant therefore must include everyone because there is only one covenant or agreement that's eternal. 

Isaiah 45:22-23,25

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

[23]I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

(Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;)

 

[25]In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

" all " the seed of Israel is " justified":

Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

 

A general allegorical rule is that the olive tree represents spiritual Israel, and the fig tree represents national Israel. The Lord specifically deals with the geographical nation and boundaries of Israel, with the land greatly expanding in the not-too-distant future, IMO. The following verses relate to the Great Tribulation, as I view it. Two-thirds of Israel will perish in unbelief, with a one-third remnant crying out to Jesus to save them.

Zechariah 13:8 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

As I view it, the keyword is a remnant; God has always preserved a remnant of His chosen people.

Romans chapter eleven discusses God's relationship with Israel and the Gentiles, emphasizing that God has not abandoned His people, as evidenced by the remnant of faithful Israelites. The author, identifying as an Israelite, references the prophet Elijah, who felt alone in his faith, but God assured him that He had preserved a faithful remnant. The text explains that Israel has not achieved what it sought, while the elect have received grace. It highlights the spiritual blindness of many Israelites, which has allowed salvation to extend to the Gentiles, provoking jealousy among the Jews. The author encourages Gentiles to remain humble, recognizing that they have been grafted into God's promise, while warning them of the consequences of unbelief. The passage concludes with a declaration of God's wisdom and mercy, stating that all have been included in unbelief so that God can show mercy to all. It affirms that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable, and ultimately, all Israel will be saved, as prophesied.

Timothy J. Demy and Thomas Ice, Answers to Common Questions about the End Times (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 2011), 74.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, What You Should Know about the Rapture, Current Christian Issues (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 79.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide to Understanding Biblical Truth (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1999), 571.

[Luther]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

A general allegorical rule is that the olive tree represents spiritual Israel, and the fig tree represents national Israel. The Lord specifically deals with the geographical nation and boundaries of Israel, with the land greatly expanding in the not-too-distant future, IMO. The following verses relate to the Great Tribulation, as I view it. Two-thirds of Israel will perish in unbelief, with a one-third remnant crying out to Jesus to save them.

Zechariah 13:8 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

As I view it, the keyword is a remnant; God has always preserved a remnant of His chosen people.

Romans chapter eleven discusses God's relationship with Israel and the Gentiles, emphasizing that God has not abandoned His people, as evidenced by the remnant of faithful Israelites. The author, identifying as an Israelite, references the prophet Elijah, who felt alone in his faith, but God assured him that He had preserved a faithful remnant. The text explains that Israel has not achieved what it sought, while the elect have received grace. It highlights the spiritual blindness of many Israelites, which has allowed salvation to extend to the Gentiles, provoking jealousy among the Jews. The author encourages Gentiles to remain humble, recognizing that they have been grafted into God's promise, while warning them of the consequences of unbelief. The passage concludes with a declaration of God's wisdom and mercy, stating that all have been included in unbelief so that God can show mercy to all. It affirms that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable, and ultimately, all Israel will be saved, as prophesied.

Timothy J. Demy and Thomas Ice, Answers to Common Questions about the End Times (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 2011), 74.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, What You Should Know about the Rapture, Current Christian Issues (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 79.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide to Understanding Biblical Truth (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1999), 571.

Did the fig tree bear any fruit? Did God curse the fig tree? That's all we need to know about national Israel. 

Now spiritual Israel, that's who we are in Christ, including the remnant of jews ( Israelites). Those in Israel today are not from ancient Israel. Not saying they can't be saved, but their DNA is actually of Central/ Eastern European origin who converted to Judaism, similar to Trump's whole family. They are also known as Ashkenazi jews, and are not semites. 

[Jaydub]

6 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Romans chapter eleven discusses God's relationship with Israel and the Gentiles, emphasizing that God has not abandoned His people, as evidenced by the remnant of faithful Israelites

Yes , but who are the remnant today? Believers in Jesus, this makes them believers.  We are one in Christ. gentile believers and Jewish believers. You can't separate the body of Christ into two groups, Israel and the Church, we are one body. Galatians 3:28 there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave or free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ

I don't understand why it is so hard for people to see this. We are grafted into the same vine. We become one fine with many branches.

If you take away the word "Church" and instead, say believers in messiah, than you can say all believers in messiah will be saved "Israel"

 

[Luther]

On 2/8/2025 at 9:33 AM, Dennis1209 said:

A general allegorical rule is that the olive tree represents spiritual Israel, and the fig tree represents national Israel. The Lord specifically deals with the geographical nation and boundaries of Israel, with the land greatly expanding in the not-too-distant future, IMO. The following verses relate to the Great Tribulation, as I view it. Two-thirds of Israel will perish in unbelief, with a one-third remnant crying out to Jesus to save them.

Zechariah 13:8 (KJV) And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

As I view it, the keyword is a remnant; God has always preserved a remnant of His chosen people.

Romans chapter eleven discusses God's relationship with Israel and the Gentiles, emphasizing that God has not abandoned His people, as evidenced by the remnant of faithful Israelites. The author, identifying as an Israelite, references the prophet Elijah, who felt alone in his faith, but God assured him that He had preserved a faithful remnant. The text explains that Israel has not achieved what it sought, while the elect have received grace. It highlights the spiritual blindness of many Israelites, which has allowed salvation to extend to the Gentiles, provoking jealousy among the Jews. The author encourages Gentiles to remain humble, recognizing that they have been grafted into God's promise, while warning them of the consequences of unbelief. The passage concludes with a declaration of God's wisdom and mercy, stating that all have been included in unbelief so that God can show mercy to all. It affirms that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable, and ultimately, all Israel will be saved, as prophesied.

Timothy J. Demy and Thomas Ice, Answers to Common Questions about the End Times (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Publications, 2011), 74.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, What You Should Know about the Rapture, Current Christian Issues (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1981), 79.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide to Understanding Biblical Truth (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1999), 571.

You quoted: " The passage concludes with a declaration of God's wisdom and mercy, stating that all have been included in unbelief so that God can show mercy to all. It affirms that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable, and ultimately, all Israel will be saved, as prophesied."

Once again I ask: who is " ALL" Israel?

The theologian makes the statement without explaining who. Does this include every person of Hebrew descent who rejected God? And what about all of those who have only trace elements of Hebrew DNA? At what percentage does one qualify for "ALL" Israel? In other words there are many millions of people in the world who have mixed bloodlines. Are they included?

If one of us does not believe on Jesus before we die, we are dead in our sins and have no possibility of eternal life. Where in scripture does God make an exception? So, once again, who is "ALL Israel"?

I have to continue this post later. But I believe the answer is found in how we understand the word " ALL". It does not always have to be understood as being all-inclusive.

I think this might be the key verse in the chapter for a better understanding:

Romans 11:32 KJV
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

In other words, God sees ALL of us as sinners, but he has mercy on ALL who believe on Jesus Christ.

 

Romans 3:9 KJV
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Galatians 3:22 KJV
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The word "all "as defined in the strongs concordance:

#3956: Greek: πᾶς
Transliteration: pas
Pronunciation: pas
Definition: Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word;
all any 6
every the whole: - all (manner of means) alway (-s) any (one) X daily + ever every (one way) as many as + no (-thing) X throughly whatsoever whole whosoever.

KJV Usage: all (748x), all things (170x), every (117x), all men (41x), whosoever (31x), everyone (28x), whole (12x), all manner of (11x), every man (11x), no (with G3756) (9x), every thing (7x), any (7x), whatsoever (6x), whosoever (with G3739) (with G302) (3x), always (with G1223) (3x), daily (with G2250) (2x), any thing (2x), no (with G3361) (2x), not tr (7x), misc (26x).
Occurs: 1245
In verses: 1075

 

Romans 10:13 KJV
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

" Whosoever".....#3956, same as " all"

Galatians 3:28 KJV
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

"All one" in Christ Jesus, the election:

Romans 9:23-24,27 KJV
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

[24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[27] Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: