Christ's kingdom will never be physically on this earth

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, abcdef said:

Rev 19:11-21, is not Armageddon. It is showing the victory over the Roman Empire by the gospel sword. It is when Rome is divided into a symbolic 10 toes/horns.

Rev 16, 6th vial/bowl shows Armageddon by name. The Rev 16 battle is between the kings from across the Euphrates River. The beast/dragon/false prophet deceive those kings into attacking restored Jerusalem.

The Rev 19, battle is Jesus attacking the Roman beast with the gospel. Christianity conquers Rome when the Roman Empire becomes "Christian".

Victory didn't take place until 380.  How was Rome divided 'symbolically' into 10 at that time?   Are you saying that is when heaven opened and the armies of heaven came down or did they come down previous?  Do you really think since that time Christ has been ruling with a rod of iron?  If Christ as KING OF KINGS 'returned' at that time then HOW ON EARTH HAVE all the wars been taking place?  Is that how you see HIS RULE going?  

Not only doesn't what you say fit with what is written, it doesn't even fit with profane/human history, so it makes no sense whatsoever to me.  I can't make heads or tails of it.  

In which way has Rome or 'the Church' claimed to BE Christ and if it is truth then WHY ISN'T IT IN JERUSALEM?

And where is all the evil we see in the world today coming from?  


The Rider on the White Horse

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He himself. 13And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Defeat of the Beast and False Prophet

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Which 'beast' was taken?  Who was the false prophet?  What miracles did he perform?  Who was deceived?  Where did the lake of fire go?  How did the remnant escape at the beginning?  How were they found out after?  

If ALL THESE things are in the PAST then explaining them with who what where when and why, should be easy.  

If they are 'symbolic' please explain of what

[DeighAnn]

17 hours ago, Locust said:

there was an earth quake that was violent enough to move bodies up and out of the graves . then people walking through that area reported what had happened . such things have happened in the not so distant past.

floods  have also known to let caskets come to the surface and yet the dead remain very dead .

But THAT isn't what is written.     Why would GOD NOT use YOUR WORDS if that is INDEED, what HE meant, INSTEAD of USING the words HE DID?  




the graves were opened...

Usage: The Greek verb ἀνοίγω (anoigó) primarily means "to open." It is used in various contexts in the New Testament, including the physical opening of doors, eyes, or mouths, as well as metaphorical openings, such as the opening of the heavens or the understanding of the mind. The term conveys the action of making something accessible or revealing something previously hidden.


saints arose...

Usage: The Greek verb "egeiró" primarily means "to raise" or "to awaken." It is used in the New Testament to describe both physical and spiritual awakenings. This includes the literal raising of individuals from sleep or death, as well as metaphorical awakenings, such as spiritual revival or enlightenment. The term is often associated with the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the future resurrection of believers.


having gone forth...

Usage: The Greek verb ἐξέρχομαι (exerchomai) is used in the New Testament to describe the action of going out or coming forth from a place. It can refer to physical movement from one location to another, as well as metaphorical or spiritual departures. The term is often used in the context of Jesus and His disciples moving from one place to another, the departure of spirits, or the spreading of news or teachings


out of

Usage: The Greek preposition "ek" or "ex" is used to indicate origin or source, often translated as "from" or "out of." It can denote physical separation, such as coming out of a place, or metaphorical separation, such as being delivered from a situation. It is also used to express cause or reason, indicating the source of an action or condition.

and


appeared

Usage: The verb "emphanizó" is used in the New Testament to convey the act of making something known or visible. It often implies a revelation or a clear demonstration of something that was previously hidden or not fully understood. This term can refer to both physical manifestations and the revelation of spiritual truths.




 

[Luther]

15 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Some millennial views are supported by charts. Very intricate charts. 

Intricate charts are capable of repeating a false narrative as well. In other words, if you lock into a literal hermeneutic regarding Revelation 20 ( or any chapter in Revelation for that matter) and envision fanciful allegories of the O.T. to be a future reality, a superbly detailed chart will give you the outcome you desire.  

I'm not against looking at any chart, because the layout is easy to understand or follow. 

If there was one other teaching from the Bible I would want to stress with utmost importance ( next to salvation), it would be the danger of falling away from understanding the nature of our Lord's return. Judgment day is called judgement day for a reason. That's it. It's the last day that the world has to repent. 

[Luther]

14 hours ago, Locust said:

Revelation 20:2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years.''

the 1000 years is the millennial reign 

The 1000 years is symbolic language, found only in the highly allegorical book of Revelation. There is no reference anywhere else in the Bible that even remotely suggests a literal period of a thousand year reign of Christ, Messiah, the Holy One of Israel. 

[Locust]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

But THAT isn't what is written.     Why would GOD NOT use YOUR WORDS if that is INDEED, what HE meant, INSTEAD of USING the words HE DID?  




the graves were opened...

Usage: The Greek verb ἀνοίγω (anoigó) primarily means "to open." It is used in various contexts in the New Testament, including the physical opening of doors, eyes, or mouths, as well as metaphorical openings, such as the opening of the heavens or the understanding of the mind. The term conveys the action of making something accessible or revealing something previously hidden.


saints arose...

Usage: The Greek verb "egeiró" primarily means "to raise" or "to awaken." It is used in the New Testament to describe both physical and spiritual awakenings. This includes the literal raising of individuals from sleep or death, as well as metaphorical awakenings, such as spiritual revival or enlightenment. The term is often associated with the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the future resurrection of believers.


having gone forth...

Usage: The Greek verb ἐξέρχομαι (exerchomai) is used in the New Testament to describe the action of going out or coming forth from a place. It can refer to physical movement from one location to another, as well as metaphorical or spiritual departures. The term is often used in the context of Jesus and His disciples moving from one place to another, the departure of spirits, or the spreading of news or teachings


out of

Usage: The Greek preposition "ek" or "ex" is used to indicate origin or source, often translated as "from" or "out of." It can denote physical separation, such as coming out of a place, or metaphorical separation, such as being delivered from a situation. It is also used to express cause or reason, indicating the source of an action or condition.

and


appeared

Usage: The verb "emphanizó" is used in the New Testament to convey the act of making something known or visible. It often implies a revelation or a clear demonstration of something that was previously hidden or not fully understood. This term can refer to both physical manifestations and the revelation of spiritual truths.




 

 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised up 53 (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people.54  But when the army officer and those with him keeping watch over Jesus saw the earthquake and the things happening, they grew very much afraid and said: “Certainly this was God’s Son.”

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Locust said:

 And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised up 53 (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people.54  But when the army officer and those with him keeping watch over Jesus saw the earthquake and the things happening, they grew very much afraid and said: “Certainly this was God’s Son.”

What Bible are you using?  Is it some modern translations?  Because nowhere have I found

PEOPLE coming out from AMONG the tombs

Just the SAINTS having been raised up out from them which is a BIG HUGE DIFFERENCE Im sure you will agree.    

Let's get closer to the ORIGINAL writings, like in the NASB Interlinear and Lexicon from the Greek these from biblehub.  And if by chance you know of any work that might get us even CLOSER TO THE ORIGINAL, then please, bring it forth.
 

2532 [e] 52   kai 52   καὶ 52   and 52   Conj

3588 [e] ta τὰ the Art-NNP

3419 [e] mnēmeia μνημεῖα tombs N-NNP

455 [e] aneōchthēsan ἀνεῴχθησαν  , were opened V-AIP-3P

2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj

4183 [e] polla πολλὰ many Adj-NNP

4983 [e] sōmata σώματα bodies N-NNP

3588 [e] tōn τῶν of the Art-GMP

2837 [e] kekoimēmenōn κεκοιμημένων having fallen asleep V-RPM/P-GMP

40 [e] hagiōn ἁγίων saints Adj-GMP

1453 [e]
ēgerthēsan
ἠγέρθησαν  ,
arose
V-AIP-3P

 

 

 

 

 

 

2532 [e] 53   kai 53   καὶ 53   and 53   Conj

1831 [e] exelthontes ἐξελθόντες having gone forth V-APA-NMP

1537 [e] ek ἐκ out of Prep

3588 [e] tōn τῶν the Art-GNP

3419 [e] mnēmeiōn μνημείων tombs N-GNP

3326 [e] meta μετὰ after Prep

3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS

1454 [e] egersin ἔγερσιν resurrection N-AFS

846 [e] autou αὐτοῦ  , of Him PPro-GM3S

1525 [e] eisēlthon εἰσῆλθον they entered V-AIA-3P

1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep

3588 [e] tēn τὴν the Art-AFS

40 [e] hagian ἁγίαν holy Adj-AFS

4172 [e] polin πόλιν city N-AFS

2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj

1718 [e] enephanisthēsan ἐνεφανίσθησαν appeared V-AIP-3P

4183 [e] pollois πολλοῖς  . to many

NASB ©    Greek    Strong's    Origin The tombs    μνημεῖα (mnēmeia)    3419: a memorial, a monument    from mnémé were opened,    ἀνεῴχθησαν (aneōchthēsan)    455: to open    from ana and oigó (to open) and many    πολλὰ (polla)    4183: much, many    a prim. word bodies    σώματα (sōmata)    4983: a body    of uncertain origin of the saints    ἁγίων (agiōn)    40: sacred, holy    from a prim. root who had fallen asleep    κεκοιμημένων (kekoimēmenōn)    2837:      to put to sleep, fall asleep were raised;    ἠγέρθησαν (ēgerthēsan)    1453: to waken, to raise up    a prim. verb and coming    ἐξελθόντες (exelthontes)    1831: to go or come out of    from ek and erchomai out of the tombs    μνημείων (mnēmeiōn)    3419: a memorial, a monument    from mnémé after    μετὰ (meta)    3326: with, among, after    a prim. preposition His resurrection    ἔγερσιν (egersin)    1454: a rousing, a rising (from death)    from egeiró they entered    εἰσῆλθον (eisēlthon)    1525: to go in (to), enter    from eis and erchomai the holy    ἁγίαν (agian)    40: sacred, holy    from a prim. root city    πόλιν (polin)    4172: a city    a prim. word and appeared    ἐνεφανίσθησαν (enephanisthēsan)    1718: to exhibit, appear (in person), to declare    from emphanés to many.    πολλοῖς (pollois)    4183: much, many    a prim. word

Strong's    Greek    English    Morphology
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
3588 [e]    τὰ
ta    the    Art-NNP
3419 [e]    μνημεῖα
mnēmeia    tombs    N-NNP
455 [e]    ἀνεῴχθησαν
aneōchthēsan    were opened,    V-AIP-3P
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
4183 [e]    πολλὰ
polla    many    Adj-NNP
4983 [e]    σώματα
sōmata    bodies    N-NNP
3588 [e]    τῶν
tōn    of the    Art-GMP
2837 [e]    κεκοιμημένων
kekoimēmenōn    having fallen asleep    V-RPM/P-GMP
40 [e]    ἁγίων
hagiōn    saints    Adj-GMP
1453 [e]    ἠγέρθησαν·
ēgerthēsan    arose,    V-AIP-3P
 

Strong's    Greek    English    Morphology
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
1831 [e]    ἐξελθόντες
exelthontes    having gone forth    V-APA-NMP
1537 [e]    ἐκ
ek    out of    Prep
3588 [e]    τῶν
tōn    the    Art-GNP
3419 [e]    μνημείων
mnēmeiōn    tombs    N-GNP
3326 [e]    μετὰ
meta    after    Prep
3588 [e]    τὴν
tēn    the    Art-AFS
1454 [e]    ἔγερσιν
egersin    resurrection    N-AFS
846 [e]    αὐτοῦ
autou    of Him,    PPro-GM3S
1525 [e]    εἰσῆλθον
eisēlthon    they entered    V-AIA-3P
1519 [e]    εἰς
eis    into    Prep
3588 [e]    τὴν
tēn    the    Art-AFS
40 [e]    ἁγίαν
hagian    holy    Adj-AFS
4172 [e]    πόλιν
polin    city    N-AFS
2532 [e]    καὶ
kai    and    Conj
1718 [e]    ἐνεφανίσθησαν
enephanisthēsan    appeared    V-AIP-3P
4183 [e]    πολλοῖς.
pollois    to many.    Adj-DMP

Greek Texts
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.
ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν, καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων, μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν, καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 27:53 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς

Matthew 27:53 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear)
καὶ ἐξελθόντες ἐκ τῶν μνημείων μετὰ τὴν ἔγερσιν αὐτοῦ εἰσῆλθον εἰς τὴν ἁγίαν πόλιν καὶ ἐνεφανίσθησαν πολλοῖς.
KJV with Strong's
And came out of the graves after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many
Matthew 27:53 Hebrew Bible
ויצאו מן הקברים אחרי הקיצו ויבאו אל העיר הקדושה ויראו לרבים׃

Matthew 27:53 Aramaic NT: Peshitta
ܘܢܦܩܘ ܘܒܬܪ ܩܝܡܬܗ ܥܠܘ ܠܡܕܝܢܬܐ ܩܕܝܫܬܐ ܘܐܬܚܙܝܘ ܠܤܓܝܐܐ ܀

Additional Parallel Greek
Parallel Verses
New American Standard Bible
and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

King James Bible
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
And they came out of the tombs after His resurrection, entered the holy city, and appeared to many.

 

[abcdef]

20 hours ago, Locust said:

where does it say months or years ? the point is it will be a serious one-sided battle/war  .we know the winner before it even starts.

Israel loses the battle/war of Armageddon and Jerusalem will fall to the kings of the east/Iran.

This will happen soon.

---

The war of Armageddon has been going on for years. It began when the power of Iraq was ended. Iraq kept Iran from attacking Israel and restored Jerusalem.

Some think that there will be only one battle with no battles before it. Only one battle where the gentile nations attack. As the present situation shows, that is not what has happened.

Just think of what has to happen in order for this situation to build up. 

The battle of Armageddon is just the last battle of the war of Armageddon.

 

[abcdef]

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Victory didn't take place until 380. 

63 BC, Rome invades Israel and begins it's power of ruling the Jews. The iron nation of Dan 2, and the 4th beast nation of Dan 7.

One head "is" in John's time, Rev 17. That means that the beast nation is in power in John's time of 96 AD ish.

3rd century, Rome divides into east and west. The legs divide in the statue of Dan 2.

380 AD is when the fatal blow for the Roman Empire was struck.

The feet begin to have clay as the Roman Empire loses territories where Jews live.

476 AD the toes appear as Rome's power over Jews is scattered among gentile kingdoms, in Europe for example.

Rome's fatal wound is healed as the false prophet Vatican retains religious power and creates a image Roman Empire and Caesar. They continue to rule over the Jews until Jerusalem is restored, 1967. Then the iron ends, just before the stone strikes.

The Revelation is primarily about the Jews during the time when Rome rules over them with the emphasis being on the time after 70 AD.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How was Rome divided 'symbolically' into 10 at that time? 

Even though the Empire had divided, Jews were still ruled by the Vatican.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

 Are you saying that is when heaven opened and the armies of heaven came down or did they come down previous? 

 

Look closely at Rev 19:11, It doesn't say that Jesus returns to planet Earth. It says heaven is opened and Jesus and the saints are seen in heaven, but it does not say that He is returning to earth at that time. Jesus fights from heaven with the gospel sword coming from His mouth.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you really think since that time Christ has been ruling with a rod of iron? 

It's not a material rod is it? When you sin, Jesus appears out of nowhere and beats you with a material iron rod?

Jesus rules our gospel kingdom with love in our hearts. If we sin, we have guilt. The guilt bruises our soul with a pain in our hearts like being struck with an iron rod.

There is no escape from the pain and bruises in our soul except Jesus. The guilt from sin lasts a long time, like memories.

Those outside of the kingdom are not sensitive to sin like we are. They are hard hearted cruel with no feelings of sympathy.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If Christ as KING OF KINGS 'returned' at that time then HOW ON EARTH HAVE all the wars been taking place? 

Jesus didn't return when the Roman Empire fell. The Rev 19 vision is about the fall of the Roman Empire and that it's fall and divisions were because of the gospel kingdom that began on Pentecost.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Is that how you see HIS RULE going? 

Jesus rules the gospel kingdom, the rest of the gentile nations go on as usual.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Not only doesn't what you say fit with what is written, it doesn't even fit with profane/human history, so it makes no sense whatsoever to me.  I can't make heads or tails of it. 

 

These Revelation visions are similar to dreams.

We have a dream and then want to glean meaning from it.

The Dan 2 statue is an example. The king had a dream. The dream had symbols. The symbols needed Daniel to explain them. The symbols represented real entities and events surrounding the future of the Jews.

In the same way, the Revelation represents entities and events about the Jews under the rule of the iron Roman Empire.

The Revelation is not all future to John in 96 AD ish, there is some past there also.

Modern definitions and viewpoints sometimes have distorted the images.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

In which way has Rome or 'the Church' claimed to BE Christ and if it is truth then WHY ISN'T IT IN JERUSALEM?

The Vatican claims to be the gospel kingdom of Israel exclusively.

"You are not a Christian unless you are Roman Catholic", they say.

So Rome does claim to be the kingdom of Israel, the church exclusively.

There are Christians in Israel today, so the kingdom is there.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

And where is all the evil we see in the world today coming from? 

Men and women who are not freed from sin by the gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

The Rider on the White Horse

11 And I saw heaven opened, 

Heaven is opened, and John sees Jesus in heaven with His saints. It doesn't say that He is returning to planet earth, He fights from heaven with the gospel sword.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He himself. 13And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

: and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 

The winepress that Jesus treads is the unbelieving Jews as long as they are outside the city of Jerusalem, Rev 14:20. They are outside of Jerusalem until the times of the gentiles is over.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

16, And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Defeat of the Beast and False Prophet

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Again, think of this vision like a dream that needs the symbols to be understood.

The battle is between Jesus and the gospel kingdom and Rome.

The victory is by conversion to be a Christian.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Roman beast nation didn't end when a few people or Caesars died. It lasts centuries and to our time.

Those who are cast into hell are already judged because they rejected Jesus, John 3:18.

The beast nation, Caesar, and the religion of Caesar worship is thrown into the fire.

These are the souls who fought against the gospel kingdom and killed saints. There

punishment is immediate.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

21And the remnant

This remnant is the Vatican, the image Roman Empire with an image Caesar at the top.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Which 'beast' was taken? 

The beast that was taken was the Roman Empire, but there is a remnant Vatican.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who was the false prophet? 

The false prophet is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome.

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

What miracles did he perform? 

Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, a miracle of evil.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Who was deceived?

Jews and gentiles

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  Where did the lake of fire go?

The lake of fire is still there, it is eternal.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  How did the remnant escape at the beginning?

The remnant didn't escape, It's not a material battle. The remnant is Rome divided into 10.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How were they found out after?

What happens to the remnant? How long does the remnant live?

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

  If ALL THESE things are in the PAST then explaining them with who what where when and why, should be easy.

Understand that John was shown the defeat of the Roman Empire by the gospel kingdom that divided and broke Rome in pieces, Dan 2:44.

 

7 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

If they are 'symbolic' please explain of what

If this was your dream, Rev 19, the meaning would be that the gospel kingdom divides and conquers the Roman Empire.

 

[Locust]

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

Israel loses the battle/war of Armageddon and Jerusalem will fall to the kings of the east/Iran.

This will happen soon.

---

The war of Armageddon has been going on for years. It began when the power of Iraq was ended. Iraq kept Iran from attacking Israel and restored Jerusalem.

Some think that there will be only one battle with no battles before it. Only one battle where the gentile nations attack. As the present situation shows, that is not what has happened.

Just think of what has to happen in order for this situation to build up. 

The battle of Armageddon is just the last battle of the war of Armageddon.

 

first this has to happen 

1 Thessalonians 5:3-6 KJV. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, abcdef said:

22 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you really think since that time Christ has been ruling with a rod of iron? 

It's not a material rod is it? When you sin, Jesus appears out of nowhere and beats you with a material iron rod?

No, but IF Christ IS RULING/has been ruling....HE IS ruling OVER the entire world AS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

that ALONE means ONE WORLD under the rules of ONE KING and ONE RELIGION under ONE LORD 

how do you explain all the evil taking place, all the laws of God being broken, all the different 'denominations' of the churches of God?