New Policy: Southern Baptist Missionary Candidates

[O'Dannyboy]

I cannot imagine how a "private prayer language" should matter to the SBC. If it is indeed a "private" prayer language then it should be when those persons are in private that they would use it. However, I do not subscribe to the "Doctrine" that tongues is a prayer language at all. I do believe that the gift of "many tongues" would be transparent to true believers since they would hear their natural language. I also do not look on these HOLY gifts so lightly to even believe that as many as claim to have this gift could possibly have it. Calling the gift of tongues a "prayer language" seems to afford the "wolves" the ability to scam the flock. The claim that the gibberish they spew during prayer is a Holy gift seems a bit far fetched to me since I believe the gift of "Tongues/many tongues" to be a tool for G_d to speak through us to those of different nationalities and lanuages. I cannot imagine ANY of these precious gifts mentioned in the Bible existing in the abundance claimed. Since I do not claim to have any of these gifts I have no coice to remain sceptical of those who DO claim to have any of them.

[WayneB]

I agree with what you are saying to an extent. Unfortunately I know almost all the men on the board (personally know them) and can tell you that the intention is much more political than anything else. The reports as of late have been SBC missionaries reporting the dead raising, people being healed, and numerous other things. The "men" on the board (or the majority) have been discussing for quite some time that this seems to be a move towards a "TBN style ministry" and they want to nip it in the bud. This is the first step of many to come.

I appreciate an insider's witness. Thank you for your insight brother.

Funny thing (and sad)? People usually fear what they do not understand, which is why Jesus Christ was so feared, especially by those in positions of power. They did NOT understand His ways and ONLY feared the loss of power and position.

Personally, I believe in a prayer language between spirit and Spirit....but that isn't the subject of discussion here. The issue is by what motive are these decisions being made? IF they are made with pureness of heart and only after seeking the Lord's will, then I can respect the decision even if I do not agree with it. I believe though, as an outsider looking in, that these decisions are made out of fear... this one especially.

[WayneB]

My own personal belief is that if a charismatic missionary is sponsored, there must be a corresponding "interpreter" with them...since scripture is specific about having someone to edify the Body with an interpreter...

Susan...God bless you sister.

I have to ask though. How do we assign corresponding interpreters? Paul never spoke of such. ALL Paul said is that "anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says" and that he "would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." Lastly, Paul said, "If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God." [1 Cor 14:13,19,28] The last verse is the private prayer language charismatics speak of. It is a song, praise or prayer between their spirit and God's Holy Spirit.

You have keen insights into the darker regions that threatens the church, which is why I listen when you speak, but I believe we risk more when we quench the Holy Spirit by attempting to legislate what is acceptable and what is not in God's eyes. It is always best to rely on God's Holy Spirit to reveal the wicked among us and ensure that we are not deceived into a false gospel. We cannot be deceived if we hold onto God's Word with pure motive.

One last point expressing the difference between tongues with interpretation for edification of the Body and a "private prayer language". One involves "mind & spirit" whereas the other involves only "spirit".

14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

Paul doesn't say not to pray in tongues. What he says is that there is a time & place and purpose for each.

Regardless, I realize that this is not the point of discussion on this thread and do not want to sidetrack the discussion. My ONLY point is that there is consequence when we begin to quench and limit the ways that the Holy Spirit moves. We need to be careful or we will find ourselves placing limits on God.

ALL that said , I do understand your concern regarding the misuse and misrepresentation of the GIFTS. There are many who fabricate a manifestation in order to appear as spiritual giants. I am sure that some who sit on the SBC board have the same concerns. How do we distinguish the real and the fabricated? BY the FRUIT.

May the Lord Bless you all richly,

Wyane

Edited November 29, 2005 by Wayne B.

[Guest Ray_Finder]

Thank you all for talking about this topic. I was almost going to fall in-active thinking that my views on the HG would not be welcome here since I am pentecostal.

I think one of the comments that might benefit some here is that the Holy Spirit is a 'person'. Certainly we can see from the scriptures that He can be grieved, also He speaks via utterance gifts. I have been baptised in the HG for years, but, now am getting to know Him as Comforter, Friend, and yes, chastiser when I need it. I am finding out that He has definate likes and dis-likes. Of course, all experiences Must be weighed with the Bible, else, error can quickly enter in peoples lives. Balance should rule the day measured by the scriptures.

All I know is that it is soooooooo good to fellowship with the Lord mornings, loving on Him, and receiving love

in return. One morning I heard Him say (in my heart) 'Good morning old friend'. I cried for joy of hearing that

from Him, it touched me in a way that I can't describe. Hallalujah !!!

My final comment is this: If Jesus thought it sooo important that He leave earth, and return to heaven, so that He could send 'another' (one just like Him) comforter, and did so; Then I should definately pay attention to the ministry of the Holy Spirit both to myself as a believer, and, corporately as a church. To ignore, or regulate

manifestations of the Spirit beyond what the scriptures teach, is to dis-honnor the 'sender' of the Spirit.

Anyway, those are my comments . . .

Ray . . .

[book_wirm]

To ignore, or regulate manifestations of the Spirit beyond what the scriptures teach, is to dis-honnor the 'sender' of the Spirit.

Agreed. The thing is, though, that concerning "private prayer tongues" there is much disagreement regarding its validity. If it is indeed a true gift whose practice belongs in the church, then we must not forbid it. If, however, it is no true gift at all or at the least does not belong in the coroporate practice of the church then it is not dishonoring to the Spirit to say such things have no place in the church. This, so far as I can tell, appears to be the SBC's stance...that it does not belong in the corporate practice of the church.

In Christ,

Eric

[WayneB]

I was almost going to fall in-active thinking that my views on the HG would not be welcome here since I am pentecostal.

Ah Ray, do not go in-active. You will find many differences here since we are non-denominational. Regardless, when we are open and share our understanding in love, we grow in Christ and learn. Our FAITH grows deeper.

What's most important is not our views on tongues but that we all believe in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior.

One interesting tid-bit? The ministry team here is composed of Baptists, Messianics, Pentecostals, Wesleyans, Local Church...you name it. I attend a Church of God (Cleveland, TN), which is a pentecostal church. Regardless, our church affiliations do not define us. They are only a means to express our worship and grow in Christ. Rather, Jesus Christ defines us.

Your views on the Holy Ghost are welcome and your personal witness is appreciated.

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

[yomotalking]

What is SBc?

[WayneB]

To ignore, or regulate manifestations of the Spirit beyond what the scriptures teach, is to dis-honnor the 'sender' of the Spirit.

Agreed. The thing is, though, that concerning "private prayer tongues" there is much disagreement regarding its validity. If it is indeed a true gift whose practice belongs in the church, then we must not forbid it. If, however, it is no true gift at all or at the least does not belong in the coroporate practice of the church then it is not dishonoring to the Spirit to say such things have no place in the church. This, so far as I can tell, appears to be the SBC's stance...that it does not belong in the corporate practice of the church.

In Christ,

Eric

Then why restrict their missionaries in foreign lands? The Word of God is the authority on the issue and a closer study of 1 Cor 14 is in order by those sitting on the board. Regardless, the board has no real power. My bet? Those Spirit-filled Southern Baptist missionaries who have their focus on the right ONE will follow the Lord's leading regardless of policy.

[book_wirm]

Then why restrict their missionaries in foreign lands? The Word of God is the authority on the issue and a closer study of 1 Cor 14 is in order by those sitting on the board. Regardless, the board has no real power. My bet? Those Spirit-filled Southern Baptist missionaries who have their focus on the right ONE will follow the Lord's leading regardless of policy.

You didn't really address what I said. Why restrict their missionaries? They aren't. They are saying that those who teach and practice a certain thing prove by their teaching and practice that they have drastically different beliefs regarding that topic than the SBC and are thus not missionaries from the SBC. How can they support them? Would you support a missionary who taught opposite to your beliefs regarding tongues?

I doubt a closer look is warrented. I, too, believe "private prayer tongues" is at best a shaky idea and at worst a complete sham. I have no doubt that the gift of tongues has been a real gift given to whom God chooses, but unfortunately I have never seen it used in a scripturally sound manner...ever. This is not to say that it never has been/is...only that for all those who claim to have it, I have never seen it used properly once.

In Christ,

Eric

[WayneB]

Would you support a missionary who taught opposite to your beliefs regarding tongues?

Yes...I actually would and do. My ONLY requirement in my support of any ministry or missionary is that they preach the ONE and TRUE Jesus Christ as the Word of God reveals.

I doubt a closer look is warrented. I, too, believe "private prayer tongues" is at best a shaky idea and at worst a complete sham.

I believe a closer study of God's Word is ALWAYS warranted when a difference in understanding surfaces. One thing... I do not believe that a private prayer language "is at best a shaky idea" although I do believe at worst some people do fabricate. I can only offer my witness that I have witnessed both sincere believers who spoke in tongues as well as as the scammers. How do you tell the difference? The FRUIT.

I have no doubt that the gift of tongues has been a real gift given to whom God chooses, but unfortunately I have never seen it used in a scripturally sound manner...ever. This is not to say that it never has been/is...only that for all those who claim to have it, I have never seen it used properly once.

I have... and she is my wife.

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne