If Satan disguises himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), how can we be sure we're not following someone who appears “biblical” but is actually a false teacher?

[bdavidc]

On 4/30/2025 at 2:35 PM, farouk said:

In this respect, I find John's First Epistle and its themes of light and darkness and fellowship very searching.

Thanks for bringing that up, I totally agree, 1 John does indeed deal directly with the themes of light and darkness, and it reinforces everything Scripture says about the need to separate from falsehood and walk in the truth, which false teachers don’t like someone bringing up. When the truth of God’s Word shines a light on someone’s error, they either humble themselves and repent, or they harden their heart and fight against it; the reaction reveals whether they love the light or hate it (John 3:19-20).  In 1 John 1:5-6, we are told, “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.” This clearly shows that true fellowship with God is impossible while embracing or tolerating error. Light and darkness cannot coexist. In 1 John 4:1, believers are commanded, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” The Greek word for “try” (dokimazō) means to test, examine, or prove. This is not passive observation, it is an active responsibility to evaluate teachings and teachers against the truth of Scripture.

Further, 1 John 2:22 calls anyone who denies the true identity of Christ “a liar,” and says plainly, “He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” That is not soft language, it is a sharp, Spirit-breathed warning to guard the church from destructive doctrines. The letter is not just about general morality or abstract light and darkness, it deals specifically with doctrine, truth, and deception. So if we walk in the light, as He is in the light (1 John 1:7), then we must reject the darkness of false teaching, expose it (Ephesians 5:11), and remain in the truth that abides in us through the Word (1 John 2:24-27). That is the biblical way to preserve true fellowship with both God and His people.

[1to3]

2 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Your response reveals a dangerous misunderstanding of what the Bible actually commands concerning false teachers. You accuse me of arrogance for identifying false teachers based on doctrinal error, yet Scripture gives believers not only the right but the duty to mark and avoid those who teach contrary to sound doctrine. Romans 16:17 says, “Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.” This is not about personal disagreement, it’s about deviation from God's revealed truth.

You claim it’s “lacking humility” to call someone a false teacher, but what truly lacks the fear of God is tolerating error that He Himself condemns. Titus 1:9-11 instructs elders to “hold fast the faithful word… that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers,” and to silence those who teach what they should not. The Greek word for “must be stopped” (epistomizō) means to silence or muzzle, not to reason endlessly or tolerate. God doesn’t tell us to coddle wolves, He tells us to protect the flock.

Your sarcasm about someone understanding “all things perfectly” is just a distraction. No one claims perfection, but 1 Thessalonians 5:21 tells all believers to “test all things.” That includes testing teachers. Galatians 1:8-9 is clear: “Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel… let him be accursed.” The Greek anathema means to be devoted to destruction, not temporarily critiqued, but permanently rejected. That’s not pride. That’s biblical obedience.

You argue that prosperity teaching isn’t an essential doctrine. But if someone distorts the gospel by promoting material gain as godliness, which 1 Timothy 6:5 calls the product of “corrupt minds, destitute of the truth,” that is a gospel issue. Paul said, “from such withdraw thyself.” The Greek word aphistēmi means to depart, not to engage or accommodate.

Stop softening what God has made hard. You are twisting Scripture to fit your standard of civility and inclusion, rather than submitting to God’s clear commands. Revelation 2:20 shows Jesus rebuking the church for tolerating false teaching. He didn’t praise them for being gracious, He condemned them for not taking action.

Let’s be clear: I have not voiced personal opinions in this discussion. Everything I’ve stated is grounded in Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone. If I’ve said anything that isn’t found in God’s Word, then show it to me with chapter and verse. But if I’ve spoken in line with Scripture, then your argument is not with me, it’s with the Bible itself. And for true Christians, there is only one logic that matters: Sola Scriptura. Human reasoning, emotion, and philosophical terms like “strawman” or “equivocation” mean nothing if they stand against what is plainly written in the Word of God.

And let me point out you’re doing the very thing you’ve accused me of. You say I’ve misrepresented your position and acted as if I’m the final authority on truth, yet it’s you who’ve twisted my words, assumed motives, and claimed the right to determine when someone is or isn’t qualified to call out error. That’s the double standard. I’ve quoted Scripture plainly. If you can show where I’ve gone beyond it, I’ll receive correction. But if not, then be honest about who you’re really opposing, because it’s not me. It’s the authority of God’s Word.

People know that whenever the truth of Scripture is brought to light, it will always stir up opposition. That’s exactly what the Bible says will happen. Wolves and false teachers don’t stay quiet when their false views are exposed, they try to silence the truth and discredit those who speak it. Galatians 4:16 says, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Jesus said in John 3:20, “Everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” This reaction is not new, and it’s not unexpected, it’s exactly what happens when God’s Word cuts through deception. If there’s pushback, it’s not because the truth is wrong, but because those holding to error are being confronted with it.

Praise God, His Word and the Holy Spirit, IS alive & working !

[Tristen]

7 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Your response reveals a dangerous misunderstanding of what the Bible actually commands concerning false teachers

Your claim that my disagreement with you "reveals a dangerous misunderstanding of what the Bible actually commands" carries no rational weight. It is more unsupported hyperbole - whereby you try to artificially posture yourself as holding a naturally superior position - giving you leave to adopt a patronizing tone.

 

7 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You accuse me of arrogance for identifying false teachers based on doctrinal error

I did not "accuse" you personally of anything. 

I did suggest there is "arrogance" in anyone presuming to elevate oneself to a position of supreme arbiter of Christian truth.

However, I would now note that your characterization of my disagreement with you as me having a "dangerous misunderstanding" of what the Bible teaches, is concerning (with regards to humility and "arrogance").

 

7 hours ago, bdavidc said:

yet Scripture gives believers not only the right but the duty to mark and avoid those who teach contrary to sound doctrine. Romans 16:17 says, “Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.”

This is a misuse of "Scripture".

Romans 16:17 is not about declaring "false teachers" over sincerely-held doctrinal differences. The verse tells us to "note" and "avoid" those whose fruit indicate insincere motives - e.g. causing "divisions and offenses" and are self-serving - i.e. "do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple" (verse 18).

Nothing in any of my responses here have taken any issue with being weary of wolves in "sheep's clothing" (Matthew 7:15).

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

This is not about personal disagreement, it’s about deviation from God's revealed truth

And all who hold "God's revealed truth" therefore presumably agree on every aspect of doctrine. There is no room in your Christian worldview for disagreement? Either we all agree with "God's revealed truth" as determined by you, or we are "false teachers" - period. There is no place for Christians to disagree or debate. There is one "revealed truth", and it is the one you have determined to be true. No further consideration is necessary.

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You claim it’s “lacking humility” to call someone a false teacher

No, I did not "claim" that.

My "claim" is that the instinct of some Christians to posture themselves as a 'heresy hunters', with the sole capture of "God's revealed truth" - affording them the right/duty to prosecute, and flippantly condemn, those who disagree with their own understanding as "false teachers" - strongly indicates a lack of humility.

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Titus 1:9-11 instructs elders to “hold fast the faithful word… that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers,” and to silence those who teach what they should not. The Greek word for “must be stopped” (epistomizō) means to silence or muzzle, not to reason endlessly or tolerate. God doesn’t tell us to coddle wolves, He tells us to protect the flock.

Yet again, you misrepresent my position as advocating for the coddling of wolves.

And yet again, you have misused "Scripture".

This passage is not about "wolves", but unruly, poorly-behaved Christians. Titus is thus instructed to, "rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth." (Titus 1:13-14). He is, however, not instructed to declare them "false teachers".

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Your sarcasm about someone understanding “all things perfectly” is just a distraction. No one claims perfection

It's not a "distraction" at all.

You are seeking leave to act as 'Accuser of the brethren' - yet you have provided no standard against which to measure your accusations (apart from the implicit standard that the accused disagree with your own understanding - which you have declared to be "God's revealed truth"). 

Where exactly does doctrinal imperfection end, and "false teacher" start?

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 tells all believers to “test all things.” That includes testing teachers.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, "Test all things; hold fast what is good."

It does not say, 'Test all things - then declare anyone who arrives at a different conclusion to you as a "false teacher"'

How many times can you misapply scripture in a single post?

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Galatians 1:8-9 is clear: “Though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel… let him be accursed.” The Greek anathema means to be devoted to destruction, not temporarily critiqued, but permanently rejected. That’s not pride. That’s biblical obedience.

I would encourage you to read all of Galatians for context.

The specific non-Gospel (Galatians 1:7) to which Paul was referring is the idea that Christian salvation requires a return to Mosaic Law.

Salvation by grace through faith (apart from Law) is a central Christian tenet - and therefore absolutely an "essential" Christian doctrine.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You argue that prosperity teaching isn’t an essential doctrine. But if someone distorts the gospel by promoting material gain as godliness

This distorted idea is not related to the "Gospel".

The "Gospel" of Christ is that, while we were dead in the corruption of our sins and condemned to everlasting punishment, Jesus made the perfect sacrifice to satiate the just wrath of God - for those who surrender their lives to Christ in sincere faith.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Stop softening what God has made hard. You are twisting Scripture to fit your standard of civility and inclusion, rather than submitting to God’s clear commands.

This is empty posturing.

- And ironic - considering that you are the one who has been "twisting Scripture" to suit your arguments - as I have demonstrated in this post.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Revelation 2:20 shows Jesus rebuking the church for tolerating false teaching. He didn’t praise them for being gracious, He condemned them for not taking action.

I never claimed we should tolerate "false teaching". Nor have I claimed we should be inactive against "error".

How many times do you need me to clarify this before you'll hear it? Why are you so determined to read this lie into my position?

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Let’s be clear: I have not voiced personal opinions in this discussion. Everything I’ve stated is grounded in Sola Scriptura, Scripture alone. If I’ve said anything that isn’t found in God’s Word, then show it to me with chapter and verse. 

The problem is not that you don't use Scripture, but rather that you habitually misuse scripture (as I have demonstrated above for every verse you have presented). 

Therefore, more empty posturing about how you are the one with "God's revealed truth" lacks rational credibility.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

But if I’ve spoken in line with Scripture, then your argument is not with me, it’s with the Bible itself

I have demonstrated that you have not "spoken in line with Scripture" - but have rather misapplied scripture in a manner that is inconsistent with a contextual interpretation of the relevant passages.

Therefore, my argument is not "with the Bible itself", but with your repeated misapplication of what the Bible says when considered in its own context.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

And for true Christians, there is only one logic that matters: Sola Scriptura.

This is technically a True Scotsman fallacy. The logical implication of this fallacy is that anyone who disagrees with you is not a "true Christian". But you have presented this false insinuation in the absence of a supporting argument.

Nevertheless, I subscribe to "sola scriptura". 

However, subscribing to "sola scriptura" does not mean your argument is immune from scrutiny - just because you make use of scripture to support your argument. Scripture can be misused. Also, sincere people can arrive at different conclusions. It is my job to "test" what you have to say, as much as you want the right to "test" others - though I will not accuse you of being a "false teacher" for disagreeing with me.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Human reasoning, emotion, and philosophical terms like “strawman” or “equivocation” mean nothing if they stand against what is plainly written in the Word of God.

The standard of logic is one of the primary ways we "test" claims. Logic fallacies are breaches of that standard.

My accusations of fallacy were made exclusively against your arguments - and not against what is "written in the Word of God".

The fact that you are prone to equating your arguments with "the Word of God" has implications for humility and arrogance. In effect, you are trying to circumvent scrutiny of your position by jumping over arguments - straight to the claim God agrees with you (and therefore disagreeing with you is tantamount to disagreeing with God). 

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

And let me point out you’re doing the very thing you’ve accused me of. You say I’ve misrepresented your position and acted as if I’m the final authority on truth, yet it’s you who’ve twisted my words, assumed motives, and claimed the right to determine when someone is or isn’t qualified to call out error. That’s the double standard.

I've only claimed concern for Christians who think it's their job to go around judging and condemning other Christians. 

For myself, I would hate to think I condemned someone, only to later find out God was working through their life and ministry.

I am happy to provide arguments against doctrines I disagree with - remembering that I may also be wrong.

If a preacher's actions undermine their claim to be Christian, then it is fair to point that out - however, making graceful allowances for repentance and restoration.

Therefore, out of respect for what God might be doing, I will be very cautious about condemning Christians or their ministries. 

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

People know that whenever the truth of Scripture is brought to light, it will always stir up opposition

...

If there’s pushback, it’s not because the truth is wrong, but because those holding to error are being confronted with it.

I did not find anything in your final paragraph that is relevant to the conversation - except for the possible insinuation that my disagreement with you is indicative of my motive to excuse darkness (as suggested in an earlier post). But I don't want to respond to something you didn't intend.

Regarding this final comment, I'd also suggest that the person you condemn could legitimately interpret your condemnation as "pushback" and stirring up strife, contention and "opposition". That is, they could apply the same argument to discredit you, that you are using to condemn them.

 

 

[1to3]

On 4/26/2025 at 4:16 AM, 1to3 said:

Amen!

Another Holy Bible verse that I  did not see yet posted but so appropriate to the topic:Paul tries to warn.2 Corinthians 11:3-4

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent 
beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds 
should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
 whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, 
which ye have not received, or another gospel, 
which ye have not accepted, 
ye might well bear with him.

 

 

 

 

Expand   Expand   Expand  

Paul tries to warn.2 Corinthians 11:3-4

“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent 
beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds 
should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
 whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, 
which ye have not received, or another gospel, 
which ye have not accepted, 
ye might well bear with him

 

 

Luke 6:26

…25Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will hunger. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. 26Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers treated the false prophets in the same way. 27But to those of you who will listen, I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,…

John. 15 Verses 18 to 20. Christ Jesus said "If the world hates you, know that it has hated Me before it hated you. [19] If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

[bdavidc]

11 hours ago, Tristen said:

Regarding this final comment, I'd also suggest that the person you condemn could legitimately interpret your condemnation as "pushback" and stirring up strife, contention and "opposition". That is, they could apply the same argument to discredit you, that you are using to condemn them.

I don't care what a false teacher thinks. I’m not here to win their approval or worry about how they interpret correction. I’m giving them the truth straight from the Bible, not my opinion. If someone wants to call that “stirring up strife, contention, and opposition,” then the problem is with their attitude toward the Word of God, not with me. Galatians 4:16 says, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” That’s exactly what’s happening. Your pushback is not really against me, it’s against the truth you don’t want to hear. When you only accept the verses that fit your view and reject the rest, you’re not submitting to Scripture, you’re twisting it. 2 Timothy 4:3–4 warns that “the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine… and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” That time is now. False teachers don’t get to define the standard, God already did in His Word. If you reject that, then you’re the one stirring up strife against the truth.

It is easy to see you are trying to redefine what Scripture plainly teaches. The Bible doesn't tell us to remain neutral when truth is compromised, especially when the gospel is at stake. Your objection to calling out false teachers rests on human reasoning and subjective definitions of arrogance and humility, not the clear instruction of God’s Word.

In Romans 16:17–18, the command is simple: “Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.” The Greek word for “mark” (skopeō) means to keep watch, to fix one’s eyes on. It’s not limited to judging motives, it’s about guarding the church against anyone promoting doctrine contrary to what Scripture teaches. This isn’t about personal superiority, it’s about obedience to God.

You claim Titus 1 is about unruly Christians, not false teachers. That’s false. Titus 1:10–11 refers to “many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers… whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not.” The Greek for “deceivers” (phrenapatēs) refers to mind deceivers, false teachers. Paul continues in verses 13–14 that they are to be “rebuked sharply,” because they are “giving heed to Jewish fables” and “turn from the truth.” This is not vague bad behavior, it’s false teaching.

You object that Galatians 1 only applies to Judaizers. But Paul says in Galatians 1:8–9, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached… let him be accursed.” The Greek word anathema means cursed, devoted to destruction. This applies to any false gospel, not just one form. Paul draws a line between the true gospel and every counterfeit. That’s not “posturing,” that’s defending the faith.

You ask, “Where exactly does doctrinal imperfection end, and false teaching begin?” Scripture answers: when someone contradicts essential truth. 2 Peter 2:1 warns of false teachers who “privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them.” These aren’t people who slip up, they actively undermine truth.

You say 1 Thessalonians 5:21 means “test all things” doesn’t include calling anyone a false teacher. But read the full context. It says, “Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil” (vv. 20–22). “Prove” (dokimazō) means to discern or examine carefully. Holding fast to what is good includes rejecting what is false.

You object to “judging” others, but Jesus said in John 7:24, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” We’re not to judge motives, but we are commanded to judge teaching against Scripture. Paul publicly rebuked Peter when he strayed from gospel truth (Galatians 2:11–14). That wasn’t arrogance, that was faithfulness.

You argue that disagreement doesn’t make someone a false teacher. True. But persistent, unrepentant distortion of God's Word does. The standard is not personal authority, it’s the written Word of God. We are not judging people by our own preferences, but by what is written.

Your final concern about being cautious not to condemn someone God is using sounds noble, but it’s not biblical. 2 John 10–11 says, “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.” We are not told to wait and see if someone might be used by God. We are told to reject false doctrine immediately.

This isn’t about whether I’m right or you’re right. It’s about whether God’s Word is being upheld. If someone teaches error and refuses correction from Scripture, that person is a false teacher, regardless of appearances or intentions. As Paul said, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump” (Galatians 5:9). The church must not tolerate error, because truth matters, and people’s souls are at stake.

[Tristen]

7 hours ago, bdavidc said:

I don't care what a false teacher thinks. I’m not here to win their approval or worry about how they interpret correction. I’m giving them the truth straight from the Bible, not my opinion. If someone wants to call that “stirring up strife, contention, and opposition,” then the problem is with their attitude toward the Word of God, not with me

You have missed/dodged the point.

If you have a sincerely-held view based on your understanding of scripture, and they have a sincerely-held view based on their understanding of scripture, then you cannot simply (legitimately) adopt the assumption that you are correct - and posture yourself as the grand 'Corrector' in the conversation. The correct posture for a Christian is humility:

2 Timothy 2:24-26
And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

It is equally valid (or equally invalid) for them to interpret your disagreement with them as "stirring up contention" as it is for you to interpret their disagreement with you as "stirring up contention".

Therefore, the argument you presented in that particular paragraph cancels itself out (unless you are suggesting a Special Pleading logic fallacy - where only you are permitted to use that reasoning).

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Galatians 4:16 says, “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?”

And they likewise could say to you, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?".

Using scripture this way (without consideration of the original context) therefore resolves nothing. It is simply you posturing to your opponents as the supremely correct one - i.e. the one whose view must be accepted without examination of arguments (i.e. without testing).

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

When you only accept the verses that fit your view and reject the rest, you’re not submitting to Scripture, you’re twisting it.

And you don't think they could make the same claim about you?

Or are you the only one who approaches scripture without any agenda or bias (or any other human corruption)?

And BTW, your caring about what they think is irrelevant to the quality of your arguments. 

 

8 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Your pushback is not really against me, it’s against the truth you don’t want to hear

Or perhaps you are the one who is reluctant to hear "the truth". 

You continue with this specious strategy of equating your position with "the truth" (i.e. "God's revealed truth") in an attempt to circumvent rational arguments - that is, to claim my disagreement with you is tantamount to disagreeing with God (i.e. "what is written in God's Word").

The logic fallacy you are employing here is called Begging the Question. That is, you are assuming yourself to be holding God's truth as a premise to your argument - i.e. assuming the conclusion. But no-one who disagrees with you is obligated to adopt the assumption that you are correct (otherwise, how could they disagree with you?).

There is no "humility" in this strategy - i.e. no hint of consideration for the possibility of you being wrong.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

False teachers don’t get to define the standard, God already did in His Word. If you reject that, then you’re the one stirring up strife against the truth.

You mean - if I "reject" your understanding of "His Word"?

Or do we again assume that you are beyond reproach, as the chief arbiter of God's truth?

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

It is easy to see you are trying to redefine what Scripture plainly teaches

Your constant reliance on logic fallacy is becoming tiresome.

Here you employ an Appeal to Motive.

If I were to play that same game, I could suggest that you are twisting scripture to justify your judgmental desire to point accusatory fingers at other Christians.

Motives are ultimately irrelevant. All that is relevant is the rational quality of the arguments.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

The Bible doesn't tell us to remain neutral when truth is compromised

Nor have I suggested we "remain neutral when truth is compromised".

- Though you will no doubt ignore this and continue to argue against this false characterization of my position.

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Your objection to calling out false teachers rests on human reasoning and subjective definitions of arrogance and humility, not the clear instruction of God’s Word.

I have not objected to "calling out false teachers".

That is an oversimplification, and therefore, another misrepresentation of my position - which you will almost certainly ignore - and proceed to reaccuse me of the same in subsequent posts.

My position is that there are too many Christians who, rather than spend their time and effort advancing the Gospel, think it is their job to go around judging other ministers without due caution, due diligence or consideration for God's involvement in the broader ministry (i.e. beyond the occasional preaching of a contestable doctrine).

 

9 hours ago, bdavidc said:

In Romans 16:17–18, the command is simple: “Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.” The Greek word for “mark” (skopeō) means to keep watch, to fix one’s eyes on. It’s not limited to judging motives, it’s about guarding the church against anyone promoting doctrine contrary to what Scripture teaches. This isn’t about personal superiority, it’s about obedience to God.

You are trying to support the idea that Christians should be publicly condemning other Christians as "false teachers" based on doctrinal disagreements. Whereas this verse simply says we should "avoid" and 'keep an eye on' those who "cause divisions and offenses" because they might be pretenders with nefarious intent.

You are therefore massaging scripture to suit your argument (i.e. beyond what it actually says).

Also, your last sentence here Begs the Question (fallacy). You don't get to simply provide a verse of scripture, then conclude your position is therefore "about obedience to God". Your opposition gets to examine (test) your use of scripture.

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You claim Titus 1 is about unruly Christians, not false teachers. That’s false. Titus 1:10–11 refers to “many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers… whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not.” The Greek for “deceivers” (phrenapatēs) refers to mind deceivers, false teachers. Paul continues in verses 13–14 that they are to be “rebuked sharply,” because they are “giving heed to Jewish fables” and “turn from the truth.” This is not vague bad behavior, it’s false teaching.

Titus was specifically left in Crete to bring order to the disorderly, misbehaving Cretan church.

Titus 1:5
For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city

Titus was not instructed to disassociate from these misbehaving Christians - declaring them "false teachers". Titus was instructed to "rebuke them sharply". Why? "that they may be sound in the faith" (Titus 1:13).

Therefore, yet again, you have made use of a scripture which does not support your desire to encourage Christians to judgmentally point accusatory fingers at other Christians.

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You object that Galatians 1 only applies to Judaizers

I didn't actually say that - but anyways ...

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Paul says in Galatians 1:8–9, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached… let him be accursed.” The Greek word anathema means cursed, devoted to destruction. This applies to any false gospel, not just one form. Paul draws a line between the true gospel and every counterfeit. That’s not “posturing,” that’s defending the faith.

Sure - the Gospel states:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Salvation is exclusively through the cross of Christ. Anyone who preaches a different 'gospel' is preaching a false 'gospel'. The specific false 'gospel' Paul was addressing was the idea that righteousness can be attained through obedience to Law.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.

So then,

1 - Not every contested doctrine is a Gospel issue (no matter how important you personally think the doctrine is).

2 - Paul is not condemning anyone specific here. He is providing an argument - logically rebutting the merits of the false 'gospel'.

Therefore, whilst a false 'gospel' should be confronted, this passage of scripture does not support your contention that Christians should be accusing and condemning other Christians as "false teachers" for mere doctrinal disagreements.

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You ask, “Where exactly does doctrinal imperfection end, and false teaching begin?” Scripture answers: when someone contradicts essential truth. 2 Peter 2:1 warns of false teachers who “privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them.” These aren’t people who slip up, they actively undermine truth.

Right - and if you, with due caution and humility, have evidence that a minister is intentionally undermining truth, then that is worthy of a conversation.

But that is not what I observe in these 'heresy hunter' types. They pick a pet putative false doctrines - and anyone whose teaching remotely approaches that doctrine is publicly declared a dangerous and "false teacher".

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You say 1 Thessalonians 5:21 means “test all things” doesn’t include calling anyone a false teacher. But read the full context. It says, “Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil” (vv. 20–22). “Prove” (dokimazō) means to discern or examine carefully. Holding fast to what is good includes rejecting what is false.

So then, "holding fast to what is good" means "rejecting what is false" which in turn means we are obligated to declare "false teachers" of everyone who arrives at a different conclusion to us.

Can you see that you have taken what the verse actually says, then massaged its meaning, by degrees, until it supports your claim? Nothing in this verse instructs Christians to go around levelling accusations against other Christians on the basis of doctrinal disagreements.

 

10 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You object to “judging” others

I made no such argument.

I have used many words to describe accusing people of being "false teachers". I may have used "judging" or "judgmental" etc. once or twice to describe this same idea.

 

11 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Paul publicly rebuked Peter when he strayed from gospel truth (Galatians 2:11–14)

"Paul publicly rebuked Peter" for Peter's hypocritical actions. Paul did not publicly declare Peter a "false teacher".

So again, this passage does not directly support your claim that Christians should be hyper critical of other Christians who disagree with them - flippantly declaring them "false teachers".

 

11 hours ago, bdavidc said:

You argue that disagreement doesn’t make someone a false teacher. True. But persistent, unrepentant distortion of God's Word does. The standard is not personal authority, it’s the written Word of God. We are not judging people by our own preferences, but by what is written.

As a young Christian, decades ago, I was heavily exposed to some of those labelled "prosperity teachers". My experience was that they taught many things unrelated to "prosperity". And that many grew in faith from their other teachings. And that many came to Christ through their ministries.

Also, I guarantee they can abundantly support their "prosperity" teaching through scripture. Now maybe its misapplied scripture, or out-of-balance, or eisegetical - but they can certainly provide plenty of scriptures to support their position.

Therefore, your claim that the standard is simply about "what is written" lacks nuance; and assumes your understanding of scripture is, by default, correct; and potentially exposes you to speaking against a work of God.

 

11 hours ago, bdavidc said:

Your final concern about being cautious not to condemn someone God is using sounds noble, but it’s not biblical

Paul directly addresses how to deal with contested doctrines (see verse 1) in Romans 14.

Romans 14:4...10
4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Paul also warned against the futility of sectarian divisions:

1 Corinthians 4:6
...  that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other

1 Corinthians 8:2
And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.

2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

1 Corinthians 10:12
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

Galatians 5:15
But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!

The title of 'devil' means prosecutor/slanderer. Satan is also referred to as "the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night" (Revelation 12:9-10). 

There are therefore plenty of "Biblical" reasons for taking pause before making public accusations against Christians.

 

13 hours ago, bdavidc said:

2 John 10–11 says, “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.” We are not told to wait and see if someone might be used by God. We are told to reject false doctrine immediately.

2 John explicitly warns against receiving those who "who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh" (verse 7) - i.e. those walking with the spirit of "antiChrist".

The admonition to reject falsehood (with which I have no issue) is not the same as encouraging impetuous condemnation based on disagreement.

 

13 hours ago, bdavidc said:

This isn’t about whether I’m right or you’re right. It’s about whether God’s Word is being upheld. If someone teaches error and refuses correction from Scripture, that person is a false teacher, regardless of appearances or intentions. As Paul said, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump” (Galatians 5:9). The church must not tolerate error, because truth matters, and people’s souls are at stake.

This repeated instinct of yours to equate your personal understanding of scripture with unequivocal "truth" is very concerning. There is no evidence from your argument that you make any provision for yourself being incorrect.

 

[bdavidc]

10 hours ago, Tristen said:

You have missed/dodged the point.

If you have a sincerely-held view based on your understanding of scripture, and they have a sincerely-held view based on their understanding of scripture, then you cannot simply (legitimately) adopt the assumption that you are correct - and posture yourself as the grand 'Corrector' in the conversation. The correct posture for a Christian is humility:

2 Timothy 2:24-26
And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

It is equally valid (or equally invalid) for them to interpret your disagreement with them as "stirring up contention" as it is for you to interpret their disagreement with you as "stirring up contention".

Therefore, the argument you presented in that particular paragraph cancels itself out (unless you are suggesting a Special Pleading logic fallacy - where only you are permitted to use that reasoning).

You’re wrong on several counts, and here’s why, straight from Scripture. First, I haven’t missed or dodged anything. I’ve directly addressed the issue by pointing people to what God actually said in His Word. The idea that both sides can be equally valid if they both sincerely believe their interpretation is a lie straight from Satan, sincerity doesn’t equal truth. That’s why Proverbs 14:12 warns, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). He gave us one Bible, one gospel, one truth, not a buffet of personal interpretations (Ephesians 4:4-6).

Second, humility does not mean silence in the face of error. 2 Timothy 2:24-26, the very passage you quoted, says the servant of the Lord must correct those who oppose the truth so they may escape the snare of the devil. That’s what I’m doing. And I’m doing it by Scripture, not opinion. What I have shown is straight from the Bible, and it is not my opinion about what the Bible says, but it is actually what the Bible says. If you can read and actually do read my posts, then you or anyone else will know that.

Your relativism puts every interpretation on the same level, which directly contradicts Paul’s charge to “preach the word” and “reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2-4). There’s no “special pleading” here, just a clear stand on the Word of God. You don’t like the tone because you don’t like the truth. But twisting Scripture to pretend that confronting error is the same as causing contention is dishonest. Paul opposed Peter to his face (Galatians 2:11), and Jesus didn’t coddle false teachers, He rebuked them sharply. So no, I’m not playing games with false doctrine. I’m holding up the Bible and calling people to align with it. If that offends you, take it up with the Author.

[bdavidc]

10 hours ago, Tristen said:

And they likewise could say to you, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?".

Using scripture this way (without consideration of the original context) therefore resolves nothing. It is simply you posturing to your opponents as the supremely correct one - i.e. the one whose view must be accepted without examination of arguments (i.e. without testing).

That accusation falls flat. The truth is, I’m not posturing, I’m quoting Scripture in context, and applying it directly, just as God intended it to be used, to correct, reprove, and expose error (2 Timothy 3:16). Galatians 4:16 is a valid and direct statement Paul made when people rejected the truth he was bringing. That verse fits exactly when biblical truth is being rejected today for the same reason, people don't like correction.

What you’re trying to do is dodge the authority of Scripture by attacking the person quoting it, instead of dealing with what the text actually says. The Bible is clear, “Prove all things, hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). That means you test what’s said by comparing it to all of Scripture, not your feelings or your opinion of someone's tone. I don’t claim to be “supremely correct”, I claim the Word of God is, and if what I’ve posted is aligned with it, then the issue isn’t with me, it’s with the Word itself. If the “they” being quoted in Galatians 4:16 is referring to you or a false teacher, then no, you cannot say you are “telling the truth”, because you are not. Only God's Word is truth (John 17:17), and if your doctrine doesn’t match it, then you're not telling the truth no matter how sincere you think you are.

[bdavidc]

11 hours ago, Tristen said:

And you don't think they could make the same claim about you?

Or are you the only one who approaches scripture without any agenda or bias (or any other human corruption)?

And BTW, your caring about what they think is irrelevant to the quality of your arguments. 

Yes, anyone can make a claim, but the question is whether that claim stands under Scripture. I don’t ask anyone to accept my words blindly. I ask them to test everything I say by the written Word of God (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The standard is not “sincerity,” it is truth as defined by the Bible (John 17:17). The Bereans were noble because they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether the things Paul taught were true (Acts 17:11). That’s all I’m doing, presenting Scripture plainly. If someone disagrees, they need to bring the Bible, not philosophical deflections.

Tristen said:

“Or perhaps you are the one who is reluctant to hear 'the truth'... You are assuming yourself to be holding God's truth as a premise to your argument... There is no 'humility' in this strategy.”

What you call assumption, God calls obedience. I am not claiming truth because it’s mine, I’m pointing to the text. Paul told Timothy to “preach the word… reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:2). I don’t need to pretend that all views are equal when the Bible is clear. Humility is submitting to what God has already said, not playing word games to leave things vague. If someone contradicts sound doctrine and won’t repent, the Bible calls that false teaching (Titus 1:10–13, Galatians 1:6–9). That’s not arrogance, that’s rightly handling the Word (2 Timothy 2:15).

 Tristen said:

“You mean - if I 'reject' your understanding of 'His Word'?... Or do we again assume that you are beyond reproach?”

 No, we assume Scripture is beyond reproach. I’m not beyond testing, that’s why I give chapter and verse. I don’t appeal to myself, I appeal to what is written. If what I said contradicts Scripture, show me. But if I’ve quoted Scripture plainly and in context, then your issue is with God’s Word, not with me.

 Tristen said:

“Your constant reliance on logic fallacy is becoming tiresome... All that is relevant is the rational quality of the arguments.”

 No, what’s relevant is Scriptural truth, not man-made logic. Paul warned in Colossians 2:8 not to be spoiled “through philosophy and vain deceit.” The Bible is not subject to human reasoning, it stands as final authority. If your arguments contradict Scripture, they’re wrong, no matter how logical they sound. Faith doesn’t rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God (1 Corinthians 2:5).

 Tristen said:

“Nor have I suggested we remain neutral when truth is compromised.”

 Yet your responses consistently rebuke the exposure of false teaching instead of the teaching itself. That is neutrality disguised as criticism. The Bible never says to stay silent when doctrine is corrupted. It commands us to “contend for the faith” (Jude 3), not stay on the sidelines.

Tristen said:

“I have not objected to 'calling out false teachers'... My position is that there are too many Christians... judging other ministers without due caution.”

 Scripture tells us to judge righteous judgment (John 7:24) and to “test the spirits” (1 John 4:1). Yes, caution is needed, but when the Bible is clear and someone refuses correction, we are to rebuke them sharply (Titus 1:13), not make excuses. If someone is teaching error that contradicts the gospel or core doctrine, we don’t wait around hoping they improve, we “mark and avoid” (Romans 16:17–18).

 Tristen said:

“You are trying to support the idea that Christians should be publicly condemning other Christians as 'false teachers' based on doctrinal disagreements...”

 No, not all disagreements, but doctrines that contradict the gospel or corrupt the church. Paul publicly rebuked Peter (Galatians 2:11) and warned that “a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump” (Galatians 5:9). When doctrine turns people away from truth, Scripture demands public correction (1 Timothy 5:20).

 Tristen said:

“Titus was not instructed to disassociate from these misbehaving Christians – declaring them 'false teachers'. Titus was instructed to 'rebuke them sharply'... that they may be sound in the faith.”

 That rebuke was because they were false teachers. Titus 1:10–11 calls them vain talkers and deceivers who “subvert whole houses”, and says “their mouths must be stopped.” That is not vague correction of behavior, that’s doctrinal confrontation. Being “sound in the faith” requires purging error.

 Tristen said:

“I didn't actually say that [Galatians 1 only applies to Judaizers] – but anyways...”

 Then don’t downplay the application. Galatians 1:8–9 applies to anyone preaching another gospel. Paul says even if he or an angel does it, they are to be accursed. That’s not open to interpretation. That is the sharpest possible language about doctrinal error.

 Tristen said:

“Not every contested doctrine is a Gospel issue... Paul is not condemning anyone specific here.”

 Wrong. He says “let him be accursed” twice. That’s a condemnation of anyone who twists the gospel. And yes, some doctrines are gospel issues. Adding works to grace, denying Christ’s divinity, denying salvation by faith, these are not minor errors. They damn souls. That’s why Paul is so severe.

 Tristen said:

“So then... 'holding fast to what is good'... means we are obligated to declare 'false teachers' of everyone who arrives at a different conclusion to us.”

 No, but when their conclusion rejects clear Scripture, yes, we are obligated to call it what it is. 1 Thessalonians 5:21–22 says to “prove all things,” “hold fast what is good,” and “abstain from every appearance of evil.” That includes false doctrine. Holding fast to truth means rejecting what contradicts it.

 Tristen said:

“I made no such argument [about judging]...”

 Then why keep objecting to labeling false teachers? Scripture says we are to judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24), not sit on our hands while wolves ravage the flock. If we never confront, we fail to love.

 Tristen said:

“Paul publicly rebuked Peter... Paul did not publicly declare Peter a 'false teacher'.”

Peter’s behavior was not false teaching, but hypocrisy. That’s true. But Paul still rebuked him publicly because he was “not walking uprightly according to the truth of the gospel” (Galatians 2:14). The principle still stands, when public error affects others, public correction is required.

 Tristen said:

“Your claim that the standard is simply about 'what is written' lacks nuance...”

 That’s because truth doesn’t need human nuance. Jesus said “thy word is truth” (John 17:17). If someone teaches prosperity lies, twisting verses to justify greed, that’s not a “different opinion,” that’s perversion. No amount of fruit justifies doctrinal poison (Matthew 7:15–20).

 Tristen said:

“Romans 14:4...12... each of us shall give account of himself to God.”

Romans 14 is about disputable matters, like food and days, not core doctrine. It’s not a license to ignore false teaching. Paul commands us elsewhere to rebuke, mark, and avoid. The “judge not” passages apply to doubtful things, not doctrinal corruption. False teachers are not in the same category as believers wrestling through minor issues.

 Tristen said:

“2 John explicitly warns against... 'who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh'...”

 Yes, and that’s one example. But the principle of 2 John 10–11 is broader: don’t receive or support anyone bringing doctrine contrary to Christ. Paul gives the same warning about those who preach another gospel (Galatians 1:8–9). False doctrine must be rejected, not tolerated.

 Tristen said:

“This repeated instinct of yours to equate your personal understanding of scripture with unequivocal 'truth' is very concerning.”

 Then open your Bible and refute it with Scripture. If what I’m saying contradicts the Word of God, show me. But if it matches what’s written, then your concern is misplaced. Truth is not “mine”, it’s God’s, and I am simply pointing to it. If that makes you uncomfortable, the problem isn’t my approach, it’s your unwillingness to submit to the Bible as the final authority.

 

[1to3]

14 hours ago, Tristen said:

Sure - the Gospel states:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Salvation is exclusively through the cross of Christ. Anyone who preaches a different 'gospel' is preaching a false 'gospel'. The specific false 'gospel' Paul was addressing was the idea that righteousness can be attained through obedience to Law.

 

Paul was addressing the endless laws  that the Jews made up.

Here Paul was not addressing Gods LAW that is grafted into ALL true believers through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit of God working in them

 

 

to fulfil ( ful fil=

 

bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted)

 

Matthew 5:17 In-Context Christ Jesus said to fulfil =

 

bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted)

 

In-Context
 

Christ Jesus said:

¹⁷ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

¹⁸ For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

¹⁹ Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

²⁰ For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Its not our righteousness, but His righteousness. His Law grafted in in the hearts of all those saved through Gods redemptive plan of salvation through Gods Only begotten Son and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit working in us

 

It is in God through the redemptive shed Blood of Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God living and working in us, that makes us clean and acceptable in Gods sight.

1 John explains it well.

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

² (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

³ That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

⁴ And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

⁵ This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

⁶ If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

⁷ But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

⁸ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

⁹ If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

¹⁰ If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

--------------------

if one does not understand  Christ Jesus of the Holy Bible as part of the Father. Son , Holy Spirit, than neither will they understand completely His Word and neither can His Word work properly in them growing in the Lord.

The bible states God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit are ONE

God created all else.

The angels are created beings

fallen angels, including the fallen anointed cherub Lucifer=satan is a created being.

 

WE humans , are created beings,we are NOT part of the trinity of The ETERNAL Living GOD The Father , Son, Holy Spirit Of God.=Living Water.

some false teachers -christian or other,claim we humans, including christian are little gods (like the serpent tried to beguile Eve to in the garden of Eden, that if she ate of the forbidden fruit she would be equal to God)

You can find this in christian forums, secular forums, churches other philosophies and religions today.

 

When men are

saved through Gods plan of redemption through His Only begotten Son

His Living Water, His Holy Word and commandments get grafted into us

We are called His children when we have turned and repented from the ways of the devil satan and have accepted Christ Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

It is His  living Word, Commandments grafted into us by the power of the Holy Spirit Of God working in us, that teaches, rebukes, heals and helps to guide, direct or path and grow more and more in Him. 

Christ jesus is the vine, we are the branches that bear fruit from the vine John 15:5

Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 10:16. These verses suggest that God will establish a covenant with His people, where He writes His Law on their hearts and minds, instead of on stone tablets. This is The New Covenant where God's law becomes internal and a Living and Active SOURCE of healing and guidance, rather than an external set of rules

 

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,= Unconditional that whoever=(Jew or Gentile believes in Him) should not perish but have everlasting life.=Conditional

The conditional is cultivating our faith =faithfuless in Him and Hid Word

look to parable of the Sower Matthew 13:1-23

Without Faith=faithfulness to Him and His Word it is impossible to please Him

Hebrews 11:6

⁶ But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He IS,=conditional) and that He=_Father, Son, Holy Spirit of God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek=(action) Him.= conditional

 "faithful" and "diligent" share some overlap in meaning, with distinct nuances. Both words imply commitment and adherence to duty, but "diligent" focuses more on careful and hardworking execution, while "faithful" emphasizes loyalty and steadfastness in relationships to God and to His principles.

(faith and being faithful) are closely related and they are considered intertwined. Faith, in the context of religious belief, is the conviction that something is true, while faithfulness is the practice of living according to that faith belief.  Faith is the foundation, and faithfulness is the action that stems from that foundation.