Does the belief in eternal hell mean that man is an eternal spirit?

[JLW001]

Taking my guidance from the bible and humbling myself before God, I know that God's ways are above mine and I have no right or basis on which to judge God. In Romans, Paul asks, "Who are we to tell the potter he made us wrong?", or who are we to judge God. I take these scriptures very much to heart and when there is a topic that I do not understand then I leave off from rationalizing things and let the faith that God has given me cover it.

The eternal torment of hell, the second death, is such a topic for me. I know that there are two resurections spoken of in revelation. I know that the first resurrection is for those who have died in Christ. The second resurrection is for everyone else. The seond resurrection takes place right before the White Throne Judgement. In this judgement we read...

NKJV Rev 20:

11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

So we see that verse 12 Identifies the 2nd resurrection (see also Rev20:5). These are obviously not christians who were saved by the blood of christ because they were judged "...according to their works,...". Now what is the result of this judgement? Verse 15 tells us. Anyone not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Another part of this judgement reveals that death itself is destroyed (verse 14). Therefore, after this judgement there can be no more death.

We get another piece of information about the lake of fire in verses just above these.

NKJV Rev20:

10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Notice the last sentence. They will be tormented day and night forever. Is the eternal torment reserved for the devil, the beast and false prophet also reserved for the humans who were not found in the book of live during the white throne judgement?

Notice that those humans not found in the book of life are "...cast into the lake of fire". However, the epitaph about being tormented day and night is left off in this instance.

Also, does the white throne judgement also suggest that there will be some humans who are judged worthy of human life by their works? What need is there for a judgement if all of the humans in the 2nd resurrection are to be cast into the lake of fire? I believe there is a clue if we continue reading.

NKJV Rev 21:

3And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying,

[Avidan]

Yes, we are eternall beings.

When the flesh stops, the spitit man continues.

When the flesh stops, where we are at that exact moment continues. Continues in another realm.

HE did not create us for a "time".

HE created us for eternity.

And "eternall" it is.

[Guest ejean]

Yes, we are eternall beings.

When the flesh stops, the spitit man continues.

When the flesh stops, where we are at that exact moment continues. Continues in another realm.

HE did not create us for a "time".

HE created us for eternity.

And "eternall" it is.

Well, I probably shouldn't even enter this discussion because I am not a great student or interpreter. I have been put down by those who are for my simplistic approach. But I believe the Bible says what it means and means what it says. It says there is no other way (except through Christ) to be saved. I do not think Jesus would have had to endure what He did if we could have been saved through our own good works. And I think that all mankind has an eternal spirit. If that spirit is not in Heaven with Jesus, it has to be somewhere!!

I know we would like to believe there is no Hell for humans BUT--.

[Avidan]

Yes, we are eternall beings.

When the flesh stops, the spitit man continues.

When the flesh stops, where we are at that exact moment continues. Continues in another realm.

HE did not create us for a "time".

HE created us for eternity.

And "eternall" it is.

Well, I probably shouldn't even enter this discussion because I am not a great student or interpreter. I have been put down by those who are for my simplistic approach. But I believe the Bible says what it means and means what it says. It says there is no other way (except through Christ) to be saved. I do not think Jesus would have had to endure what He did if we could have been saved through our own good works. And I think that all mankind has an eternal spirit. If that spirit is not in Heaven with Jesus, it has to be somewhere!!

I know we would like to believe there is no Hell for humans BUT--.

aND i AGREE.

[JLW001]

What I want to believe is the truth. That means prayerfully studying God's Word and asking for wisdom. I think it also means discussing things with the brethern. However, the discussion must always be within love. There should never be any harshness or blame or judgement against a person.

If we believe that man has an eternal spirit, then does that violate anything that God has said about us? Is that placing man at a point where he should not be? You see that is what I am struggling with. Its not a question of whether its ok with me that God punishes sinners in an eternal punishment, its that if the punishment is eternal, then that means that humans are eternal beings. Does it not?

The idea that a man's spirit is eternal is somehow offensive to me. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems to elevate man to a point where he should not be. That is the idea I am struggling with. I suppose I did not properly phrase the question.

Does belief in the eternal spirit of man violate God? The belief in the eternal spirit of man pervades paganism and perhaps that is why it offends a some part of me. Didn't God tell Adam and Eve that they would surely die if they ate the fruit of the tree? He didn't say you will be eternally punished. Was he simply referring to the physical death that is appointed to all men?

[Guest ejean]

What I want to believe is the truth. That means prayerfully studying God's Word and asking for wisdom. I think it also means discussing things with the brethern. However, the discussion must always be within love. There should never be any harshness or blame or judgement against a person.

If we believe that man has an eternal spirit, then does that violate anything that God has said about us? Is that placing man at a point where he should not be? You see that is what I am struggling with. Its not a question of whether its ok with me that God punishes sinners in an eternal punishment, its that if the punishment is eternal, then that means that humans are eternal beings. Does it not?

The idea that a man's spirit is eternal is somehow offensive to me. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems to elevate man to a point where he should not be. That is the idea I am struggling with. I suppose I did not properly phrase the question.

Does belief in the eternal spirit of man violate God? The belief in the eternal spirit of man pervades paganism and perhaps that is why it offends a some part of me. Didn't God tell Adam and Eve that they would surely die if they ate the fruit of the tree? He didn't say you will be eternally punished. Was he simply referring to the physical death that is appointed to all men?

Maybe I understand what you are asking - but not real sure why. It appears that the angels are also created as eternal spirits and that they - both the good who remained with God and those who followed Satan - are still eternal spirits. Why would it be different with man? As I said, I have a very simplistic approach. But I will think on this.

[Fiosh]

John 6: 51-58

[CarolineS]

If we believe that man has an eternal spirit, then does that violate anything that God has said about us? Is that placing man at a point where he should not be? You see that is what I am struggling with. Its not a question of whether its ok with me that God punishes sinners in an eternal punishment, its that if the punishment is eternal, then that means that humans are eternal beings. Does it not?

The idea that a man's spirit is eternal is somehow offensive to me. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems to elevate man to a point where he should not be. That is the idea I am struggling with. I suppose I did not properly phrase the question.

Does belief in the eternal spirit of man violate God? The belief in the eternal spirit of man pervades paganism and perhaps that is why it offends a some part of me. Didn't God tell Adam and Eve that they would surely die if they ate the fruit of the tree? He didn't say you will be eternally punished. Was he simply referring to the physical death that is appointed to all men?

Man does not have an immortal or eternal soul. This is a belief taken from pagan culture and incorporated into the apostate church. Only God is immortal.

We receive the gift of immortality at the second advent of Christ. It is a gift. It is for believers only. Only for those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

Unbelievers do not receive the gift of immortality. They are punished according to their sins. Some will burn for a short time, some longer. Then the fire will go out. Evil will no longer exist. Only what is holy, good, and righteous. Never again will any sin occur in the new world God has prepared.

If you study the Word, scripture clearly refutes this false idea of the immortal soul, which is a lie from Satan himself.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[JLW001]

Thanks, Fiosh, thats one of the things Im trying to get at. Jesus says you won't have eternal life unless you are in Him. Therefore, those that are not found in Him will not live eternally. So.....if you arent in Jesus you wont live eternally.

So far, I have come to the conclusion that God will destroy those humans who aren't in Jesus in an everlasting lake of fire. However, they won't have eternal life and therefore can not be tormented forever in hell. However, the fallen angels and the devil were created as spiritual or eternal beings and they will live in punishment forever. What does this say about what the beast and false prophet really are? The bible is very clear and makes certain to say that they will be tormented forever. That epitaph is not included for those humans in the white throne judgement.

The lake of fire will last forever and the devil and his angels will be there forever. However, it appears that those humans condemned to the lake of fire will not live forever. However, their punishment will be everlasting because they will never exist. It will be as if they never existed. Is that perhaps the everlasting punishment?

Is there any way to reconcil what Jesus tells us about eternal life and what men have said of eternal damnation?

[JLW001]

Thanks CarlineS. Thats exactly why everlasting torment in the lake of fire can not be included for those humans not found in Jesus. Thanks very much for encouraging my belief in this area.