Are Jews saved...

[Guest larrye2001]

No one goes to the father except through Yeshua:

Question: If no one goes to the Father except through Yeshua how did Moses and everyone in the First Testament to the Jews,enter the kingdom or G_D, since they died before Yeshua was born?

In John: 4:22 Yeshua says He is a Jew, only Jews know how to Worship and salvation comes from the Jews. Matt: 23:3 Yeshua tells Jews to "Observe and Do" (continue to follow the laws of Moses.

Question: why do gentile converts reject what Yeshua said and admit they are converted Jews who follow Yeshua?

Do you believe Yeshua lied or mis spoke or tricked others into believing something that was not completely true about the importance of remaining Jewish?

[vintje]

No one goes to the father except through Yeshua:

Question: If no one goes to the Father except through Yeshua how did Moses and everyone in the First Testament to the Jews,enter the kingdom or G_D, since they died before Yeshua was born?

In John: 4:22 Yeshua says He is a Jew, only Jews know how to Worship and salvation comes from the Jews. Matt: 23:3 Yeshua tells Jews to "Observe and Do" (continue to follow the laws of Moses.

Question: why do gentile converts reject what Yeshua said and admit they are converted Jews who follow Yeshua?

Do you believe Yeshua lied or mis spoke or tricked others into believing something that was not completely true about the importance of remaining Jewish?

Hallo there. I think you're missing the whole point of being christian. Like Jesus said in his time indeed, he did not come to change even a iota from the law of Moses, but added that for a worthy christian believer there are sole two commandments: love God and your neighbour as yourself. In there you find the whole law. Jesus added that Moses gave some laws to his people that where not quite the purpose of God himself, but where given because of the thickness of the heart of the people. The law strangled people in itsself. We are through Jesus freed from the law, but not of his commandments, which are few, but nevertheless heavy and serious.

[JohnS]

Question: If no one goes to the Father except through Yeshua how did Moses and everyone in the First Testament to the Jews,enter the kingdom or G_D, since they died before Yeshua was born?

Avraham said, "God will provide himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son."

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen. For by this, the Zakenim obtained testimony. By faith, we understand that the universe has been framed by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made out of things which are visible.

By faith, Hevel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Kayin, through which he had testimony given to him that he was righteous, God bearing witness with respect to his gifts; and through it he, being dead, still speaks. By faith, Hanokh was translated, so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God translated him. For he has had testimony given to him that before his translation he had been well pleasing to God. Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him. By faith, Noach, being warned about things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared a teivah for the saving of his house, through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. By faith, Avraham, when he was called, obeyed to go out to the place which he was to receive for an inheritance. He went out, not knowing where he went. By faith, he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a land not his own, dwelling in tents, with Yitzchak and Ya`akov, the heirs with him of the same promise. For he looked for the city which has the foundations, whose builder and maker is God. By faith, even Sarah herself received power to conceive, and she bore a child when she was past age, since she counted him faithful who had promised. Therefore they were fathered by one, and him as good as dead, as many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as innumerable as the sand which is by the sea shore. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and embraced them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the eretz. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking after a country of their own. If indeed they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had enough time to return. But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed of them, to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. By faith, Avraham, being tested, offered up Yitzchak. Yes, he who had gladly received the promises was offering up his one and only son; even he to whom it was said, "In Yitzchak will your seed be called;" accounting that God is able to raise up, even from the dead. Figuratively speaking, he also did receive him back from the dead. By faith, Yitzchak blessed Ya`akov and Esav, even concerning things to come. By faith, Ya`akov, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Yosef, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. By faith, Yosef, when his end was near, made mention of the departure of the children of Yisra'el; and gave instructions concerning his bones. By faith, Moshe, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw that he was a beautiful child, and they were not afraid of the king's mitzvah. By faith, Moshe, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Par`oh's daughter, choosing rather to share ill treatment with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time; accounting the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures of Mitzrayim; for he looked to the reward. By faith, he left Mitzrayim, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. By faith, he kept the Pesach, and the sprinkling of the blood, that the destroyer of the firstborn should not touch them. By faith, they passed through the Red sea as by dry land. When the Mitzrim tried to do so, they were swallowed up. By faith, the walls of Yericho fell down, after they had been encircled for seven days. By faith, Rachav, the prostitute, didn't perish with those who were disobedient, having received the spies in shalom.

What will I more say? For the time will fail me if I tell of Gid`on, Barak, Shimshon, Yiftach, David, Shemu'el, and the prophets; who, through faith, subdued kingdoms, worked out righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, grew mighty in war, and turned to flight armies of aliens. Women received their dead by resurrection. Others were tortured, not accepting their deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Others were tried by mocking and scourging, yes, moreover by bonds and imprisonment. They were stoned. They were sawn apart. They were tempted. They were slain with the sword. They went around in sheepskins, in goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated (of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves, and the holes of the eretz. These all, having had testimony given to them through their faith, didn't receive the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, so that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

not of works, that no one would boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Messiah Yeshua for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

[Guest shiloh357]

No one goes to the father except through Yeshua:

Question: If no one goes to the Father except through Yeshua how did Moses and everyone in the First Testament to the Jews,enter the kingdom or G_D, since they died before Yeshua was born?

In John: 4:22 Yeshua says He is a Jew, only Jews know how to Worship and salvation comes from the Jews. Matt: 23:3 Yeshua tells Jews to "Observe and Do" (continue to follow the laws of Moses.

Question: why do gentile converts reject what Yeshua said and admit they are converted Jews who follow Yeshua?

Do you believe Yeshua lied or mis spoke or tricked others into believing something that was not completely true about the importance of remaining Jewish?

John 14:6 "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the father but by me." Those are the words of Jesus. The Bible also says:

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

(Acts 4:12)

In the First Testament, they were saved by grace through faith, just like today. The difference is that they were saved by grace through faith in the Messiah to come. We are saved by grace through faith in the Messiah who has come.

Believing in the Messiah is the most Jewish thing you can do. Believing in the Jewish Messiah does not cause a Jewish person to cease being Jewish.

[SpiritLedEd]

No one goes to the father except through Yeshua:

Question: If no one goes to the Father except through Yeshua how did Moses and everyone in the First Testament to the Jews,enter the kingdom or G_D, since they died before Yeshua was born?

In John: 4:22 Yeshua says He is a Jew, only Jews know how to Worship and salvation comes from the Jews. Matt: 23:3 Yeshua tells Jews to "Observe and Do" (continue to follow the laws of Moses.

Question: why do gentile converts reject what Yeshua said and admit they are converted Jews who follow Yeshua?

Do you believe Yeshua lied or mis spoke or tricked others into believing something that was not completely true about the importance of remaining Jewish?

Abraham, Moses, King David etc. were saved because they were faithful to the one true God under the Abrahamic covenant. Yeshua is God, the second Person of the Holy Trinity. Though he had not yet come to earth as the God-man, he was the pathway to God in their day also.

As for the John 4:22 citation, Jesus was using the term "Jew" in the spiritual sense. He was not referring to nationality. Paul spelled out the spiritual definition in Romans 2:28-29, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circuncision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God." Thus true believers who are gentiles by nationality are jews spiritually and when Jesus told his listeners to remain jewish, he was challenging them to be jews spiritually.

[Guest shiloh357]

Romans 2:28-29, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circuncision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God." Thus true believers who are gentiles by nationality are jews spiritually and when Jesus told his listeners to remain jewish, he was challenging them to be jews spiritually.

No, Paul was talking about what makes a Jewish person truly Jewish. He was speaking against the pride that he himself experienced as a Pharisee. Paul was speaking against the pride that caused some Jewish people to glory in their pedigree.

Starting back at v. 17, Paul is talking to Jews. Paul has already demonstrated in the previous verses, that being without the Torah does not necessarily place the Gentiles at a disadvantage. Paul nows goes after Jewish pride that places its faith in the external practices, and boasts in the Torah/Law.

In boasting and abusing their Jewishness, Paul says that they have become the very antithesis of what Torah observance, and Jewishness really is. In their foolish pride, they both dishonor God and instead of being a light to the Gentiles, the cause the Gentiles to blaspheme God, sending them further and further into darkness.

Paul goes even further and tells them that those who are uncircumcised but have fulfilled the righteousness of the law (this is done by faith in Messiah), will sit in judgement of those to whom the law was given in the first place. The very ones who should have been glorifying God and being a light to world will, through their hypocrisy and pride find themselves judged by the very ones they presumed were in darkness. The Gentiles who, through the Messiah fulfill the righteousness of the Torah will stand as a continual judgement against those whose boast is solely in their legalistic performance of Torah, and not in God.

Paul then tells his Jewish audience the Jewish person who wears his Jewishness on his sleeve, who goes about making an obnoxious, ostentatious display of his pedigree is, in fact, not a Jew. He commands others to keep the Torah while violating it himself, He takes pride in the advantages he has as if they were his own accomplishments, and not the provision of the Lord, and in doing so he has no place in the Kingdom of God.

Paul tells his Jewish audience in these verses that their outward circumcision is not the essence of their Jewishness. It is the circumcision of the heart, the cutting away of the fleshly desires and attitudes that prevent them from living as those who praise is of God.

[aaronjm]

Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between Jew, and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all..." In order to be Jewish, you have to reject Christ as savior, by doing this you are rejecting salvation. I am not in any position to judge them, but Yeshua himself said that through Him is the only way to the Father.

Aaron

[SpiritLedEd]

Romans 2:28-29, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circuncision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God." Thus true believers who are gentiles by nationality are jews spiritually and when Jesus told his listeners to remain jewish, he was challenging them to be jews spiritually.

No, Paul was talking about what makes a Jewish person truly Jewish. He was speaking against the pride that he himself experienced as a Pharisee. Paul was speaking against the pride that caused some Jewish people to glory in their pedigree.

Starting back at v. 17, Paul is talking to Jews. Paul has already demonstrated in the previous verses, that being without the Torah does not necessarily place the Gentiles at a disadvantage. Paul nows goes after Jewish pride that places its faith in the external practices, and boasts in the Torah/Law.

In boasting and abusing their Jewishness, Paul says that they have become the very antithesis of what Torah observance, and Jewishness really is. In their foolish pride, they both dishonor God and instead of being a light to the Gentiles, the cause the Gentiles to blaspheme God, sending them further and further into darkness.

Paul goes even further and tells them that those who are uncircumcised but have fulfilled the righteousness of the law (this is done by faith in Messiah), will sit in judgement of those to whom the law was given in the first place. The very ones who should have been glorifying God and being a light to world will, through their hypocrisy and pride find themselves judged by the very ones they presumed were in darkness. The Gentiles who, through the Messiah fulfill the righteousness of the Torah will stand as a continual judgement against those whose boast is solely in their legalistic performance of Torah, and not in God.

Paul then tells his Jewish audience the Jewish person who wears his Jewishness on his sleeve, who goes about making an obnoxious, ostentatious display of his pedigree is, in fact, not a Jew. He commands others to keep the Torah while violating it himself, He takes pride in the advantages he has as if they were his own accomplishments, and not the provision of the Lord, and in doing so he has no place in the Kingdom of God.

Paul tells his Jewish audience in these verses that their outward circumcision is not the essence of their Jewishness. It is the circumcision of the heart, the cutting away of the fleshly desires and attitudes that prevent them from living as those who praise is of God.

Shiloh357:

I think that you and I are pretty much on the same page. I did not mean to imply that Paul wanted jews to deny their jewish heritage. He wanted them to become jewish spiritually again. They had drifted off course and become mired in fleshly pride in the guise of pseudo-spirituality.

SLE

[Giaour]

w,

Please go away.

He's gone.......Giaour

Edited December 10, 2005 by refugepsa91

[Giaour]

Praise God.

Thank you moderators. Well done.