Because of our debt to God we love the Jews

[George]

Hello brothers and sisters,

Since the last thread had detoriated so badly, I decided to make a fresh start on this same topic. I'll address several key points -- first, Israel in prophecy today. 2ndly, where Israel is in prophecy. Thirdly, because of our debt to the Lord how we should love all people -- and have a special heart for the Jewish people.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[George]

What is Zionism?

According to Webster's Dictionary --

an international movement orig. for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel.'

Is God for the establishment of the state of Israel?

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Why does God reestablish the state of Israel?

Ezekiel 36 discusses the reestablishment of Israel.

Eze 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Where is Israel right now in prophecy?

Ezekiel 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

No breath in them -- No SPIRIT in them -- YET!

But what shall happen in the future?

Hosea 3:4,5 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim: Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Then they shall meet their Messiah whom we know --

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

For this must happen why? Jesus prophecied that Israel was to be left desolate -- BUT HIS RETURN WOULD NOT OCCUR UNTIL...

Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

ISRAEL CRIES OUT -- Baruch haba b'Shem Adonai -- Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!

And so shall all of Israel be saved as Paul has declared!

Now is there anything that I just pointed out that is in ERROR? If not let us use this thread as a starting point for a common understanding of Israel.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[George]

Understanding where Israel is in the prophetic timeline. I realize what I am about to post is somewhat controversial to some, but I believe this is 100% of the Spirit and unveils another hidden mystery of God.

Let me say this in a parabolic sense --

When a king has returned home -- you'd expect a huge welcome and celebrations. And you'd expect the daughter of the King to be the first to embrace the King! So it was 2000 years ago, when Jesus came -- he was not celebrated or welcomed by the daughter of the King -- what would you expect the King to do? So we are now in time -- Israel did not embrace the King as a whole, but in the King's love and promises made to the forefathers He has perserved them, kept them, and will watch over them. The daughter of the King will soon recognize the love of the King and embrace the King.

For the past 2000 years -- Israel has been under a curse for rejecting their Messiah (but so is every person who has rejected Messiah), but this curse has not, nor will it negate or break the promises of God concerning the people of Israel.

How strong is this promise?

Jeremiah 31:35

[George]

Why should we have a special love for the Jewish people?

First of all, Paul wrote Romans under the power of the Holy Spirit and said,

Romans 10:1

[George]

Now understanding this -- that EVERY believer in Messiah has been grafted into SPIRITUAL ISRAEL. Watch this carefully --

Eph 2:11

[George]

Now understanding the promise made to Abraham -- for Abraham was promised to be the FATHER of many NATIONS.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This was accomplished through Christ, but also hides another mystery -- now you are part of Abraham's seed!

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[IslandRose]

George,

I understand and agree with everything you have posted here!

Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem,

IR :il:

[Catsmeow]

Too awesome! I've never heard it so well articulated....

George, from the time I first believed I have had a special place in my heart for them. I've had a very special love for them - it just came naturally.

Even when I correspond with the Rabbis on the website I subscribe to, (traditional, non-Messianic) - they know I'm gentile and they show me such kindness and warmth. I realize that they have not come to knowledge of the true Messiah yet somehow there's a strange feeling I get...in my heart of hearts.

I sense a kinship of a sorts...perhaps it's in anticipation of the forthcoming reconciliation.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings George,

I guess I'll have to be the spoil sport here:

What is the latter rain linked to?

....

The repentence of the Jewish people!...

I AGREE, but in lieu of the following:

Deut 4:26-31 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. 27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. 28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. 29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. 30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; 31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

I have asked Yhudah to respond to this and he REFUSES to. Would you care to give it a shot?

My other contention I have is the following:

Now understanding this -- that EVERY believer in Messiah has been grafted into SPIRITUAL ISRAEL.

...

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Now everyone who was an ALIEN FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL are now brought into the COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL through Jesus Christ.

I wholeheartedly disagree that we have been "grafted into SPIRITUAL ISRAEL". The precise wording is that "we are made nigh by the Blood of Christ." That is "brought near", like a branch on a tree is NEAR another branch on the same tree, but the TREE itself IS NOT "SPIRITUAL ISRAEL", but it is the "Kingdom of God" of which Israel was once the sole possessor and which was TAKEN FROM THEM and given to a "peoples" that would produce fruit - IOW, the Gentiles.

SPIRITUAL ISRAEL are those of Jacob who have the "faith in God" as their father Abraham had, and belief in His Son. These are they "of the remnant" of which Paul claimed to be a part of.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[George]

Sure thing Dad Ernie I will go ahead and do my best to state what I believe to be truth. There's so many examples but I will start with just a few and continue on if need be.

Let's start with the disciples as they are seeing Jesus go into the heavens...

Acts 1: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Notice Jesus does not correct the disciples, but rather says -- "You do not know when I will restablish the kingdom!" Notice closely -- RESTORE AGAIN the KINGDOM to ISRAEL!

We know that Jesus will be sitting on the throne of David!

1 Kings 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

Notice I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon ISRAEL FOREVER!

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Another aspect of understanding is the rebuilding of the tabernacle (sukkah) of David.

Amos 9:11