Matthitjah Posted January 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2006 Quote TimesOnLine.com; Judas the Misunderstood From Richard Owen, in Rome Vatican moves to clear reviled disciple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Rehabing Judas? OK, that sounds a little weird.... But I have heard the explanation before that Judas wasn't meaning to hand Jesus over to death. As the article states: "Some accounts suggest he acted out of disappointment that Jesus was not a revolutionary who intended to overthrow Roman occupation and establish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) Grace to you, Bless you sister, I believe that when Peter tried to stop the Lord from going forward to Gods will for His life. He was rebuked and called anti-christ and actually satan. In the action of betraying the Lords confidence and trying to provoke a different outcome. Which is what is being postulated?Was he not indeed standing in the way of Gods very will? Whether his intentions were good or not. He would still be in the same boat as Peter. Whom I assume had good intentions as well. Does this rehabing of the man not actually present another Gospel? Another way through all the good intentions in the world? We see two totally diffrent kind of men in Peter and Judas as well. Peter wasn't always the brightest. Often very Zealous.( I kinda identify with him. However he was quick to repent and always the first to acknowledge the Lords identity. We are told in the article that according to tradition Judas was told to go into the desert and perform Spiritual Exercises. He told La Stampa that there was a Christian tradition that held that Judas was forgiven by Jesus and ordered to purify himself with Edited January 12, 2006 by Dr. Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted January 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2006 Follow scripture, always....but I have to admit, my heart always ached for Judas. I've felt just as much of a failure to the Lord as Judas and just as unworthy of His mercy and kindness... It's just sorta hard not to feel sorry for the guy. Man, nobody in their right mind would want to be in that guy's shoes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 13, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,854 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2006 1 Cor 5:4-5 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. NASB I don't know if this pertains to this discussion, I only bring it up because I really don't understand the pricniple behind what he is saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 This rehabing of Judas as mentioned in the article fails to take into account that Judas was also a thief (John 12:6). As the treasurer, he had their full confidence. Judas, no doubt might have appeared as the poster child of outward piety, and humility. The other disciples had no idea what was really going on, on the inside. Given Peter's short, somewhat violent temper, he might have killed Judas if he had known that Judas was taking some of the funds for his own use. For the Pontifical Committee for Historical Science to attempt to whitewash Judas, and clear his name is foolish. Even Jesus called Him a "demon" (John 6:70,71). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted January 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Brother Shiloh, That is exactly my point. To what end is this occurring? I believe sincerely this is an attempt at allowing this man some kind of Universal or Works based Salvation. When indeed what is True of him is plain and simple. God knew his heart. The motivation to repaint in him in some other kind of light. Maybe a reflection of the very times in which we live and the very failures that we oursleves are afraid of. Although we should understand that we are forgiven and only need to give them over to God and repent. I am reminded of this verse. Ps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted January 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Does this rehabing of the man not actually present another Gospel? Another way through all the good intentions in the world? (snip) We are told in the article that according to tradition Judas was told to go into the desert and perform Spiritual Exercises. (snip) My question, not to you, but in general. Is did this cleanse of him sin? The only exercise he performed was to hang himself and fall plunging headlong and bursting asunder. (snip) In sincerety I am trying to understand why the rehab. Is it to make the story a little more Relative to todays society in which we live? Is it to recapture the image of Christ which has been cast down through the ages? if we do so endeavor to recast His image? In whose image do we now recreate Him? Also in whose image do we now recast Judas? OK - I get what you were after - not Judas' motives, but what is this rehabilitation thing all about? Again, I say, it's a bit weird. Nowhere in Scripture does it mention Jesus telling Judas what to do after the betrayal. I believe had Judas done what Peter had done - repented - he could have been restored. But Judas did not. Peter, like King David, knew the heart of God and believed in God's mercy and love. (At least, his actions showed this.) Judas, on the other hand - by his actions as Shiloh above pointed out with Judas stealing money from the money bag - had a corrupt heart. Think about it, he was stealing from Jesus and the other disciples directly! Judas didn't need a rehabilitation - he needed a transformation. But that could only happen if he opened his heart to it, which he obviously had not. Rehab is a humanistic dream. It's not the way God - which is to die to your old self, not change it. Some ritual in the desert can't do that. It is an act of will in your own heart and mind, and it involves faith in God's nature to forgive and cleanse you. Judas' actions show he didn't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomotalking Posted January 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,838 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1991 Share Posted January 13, 2006 This is a very interesting discussion, and I would like to see how it progesses..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted January 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2006 So now it's Judas saying, "I have NOT sinned in that I've betrayed innocent blood"! Might Judas also be said to have questioned Jesus' "innocent blood"? I know, I know, Judas didn't really commit a crime. He simply failed to obey God's Holy Law of agape love, right? These bible-scuttlers never cease to amaze and amuse. I'm trying hard to imagine them with personalities altho I rather do think they're all suspended in Baltic Amber about now. Remember: God bats last! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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