BlindSeeker Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,043 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. This to me seems like an opportune time to make it known at creation that they created man in their own image. Exactly as he did in verse26. Verse 27, as you'll note is a narrative, an external description of the same event, referring once more to God as "elohiym" (the powers) the term which in itself suggests plurality, or more specifically to the topic, trinity. Ex 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god <'elohiym>to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. God called Moses "elohiym," was Moses three or one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unico Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 27 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 (edited) More on Elohim Edited January 18, 2006 by Unico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 More on Elohim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cloud9 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 There really is no such thing as the trinity. You won't find it in the Bible. It is a man made theory. Unfortunately, it takes away from the power of Jesus name. You won't be able to make much sense of the trinity since there is no scriptural references to support it. All through the Bible one thing is clear. Salvation is through Jesus name. Healing is through the name of Jesus. All actual babtisms in the Bible were in Jesus name. Jesus is God, they are one. The Holy Spirit is simply another manifestation of God. Hear O Israel the lord our God is one, says the Bible. Trinitarians don't believe there are three Gods, but when the three are separated, it is confusing, and the power of the name of Jesus is compromised. For instance, Jesus said to baptize in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. He didn't say baptize in the nameS of the ...., he said name. That means there is one name. What does the Bible say that one name is? Jesus. The Bible said that there is only one name given to men whereby we can be saved. The name is Jesus. Anything less than that is not Biblical and therefore not correct. Again, Jesus said to be baptized in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. And every single place in the bible where an actual baptism takes place, they spoke "In the name of Jesus". Jesus himself was telling us right there in that scripture that there there is no trinity, they are one! If there were 3 persons as the trinitarians believe, there would be 3 names! You can be a father, a son and a husband, all at the same time. Yet you only have one name as those are just titles that help explain who you are! You aren't 3 different persons! You aren't a trinity! You are one! Just like God is one. This seems to me to be very clear. I realize it's hard to give up something you've been taught all your life and your parents believe it, and their parents believed it... What is more important, tradition of men or a clear understanding of the Bible and who Jesus really is? I sincerely hope this helps, Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 There really is no such thing as the trinity. You won't find it in the Bible. It is a man made theory. Unfortunately, it takes away from the power of Jesus name. You won't be able to make much sense of the trinity since there is no scriptural references to support it. In my mind this statement is not completely accurate. You are correct that the term "Trinity" is not found in the scriptures. You are incorrect, however in your assertion that there is no scriptural support for the concept. There are numerous of passages that support its core concepts: 1. That God eternally exists in three persons 2. That Each person is fully God 3. That there is one God You are confusing the term used to label the doctrine with the concepts that make the doctrine up. For a doctrine to be true, there only needs to be scriptures that supports its concepts. There do not need to be scriptures that contain the name we have given the doctrine. Oneness theologians make the mistake of eelevating one of the truths (That there is one God) over the two other truths listed above. There for "oneness theology" is by its very nature incomplete biblically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chad Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Somewhere since I last came here we hit a stumbling block. There is actually one person in here saying that Jesus isn't God? Look people here is the problem I think we all stumble upon with the trinity. God clearly makes it known in I Timothy 3:16 that He manifested Himself in flesh. This we know to be true. Where we get the hang-up is not giving enough significance to the fact that Jesus was fully-human and fully-devine. He was GOD in human form. He wanted to feel everything that we do, temptations, feelings, struggles, and the whole mess of other things. Now if He had only used His divine nature in taking on human flesh, then He really wouldn't have been fully-human. That is why Jesus prayed to God, Jesus the man prayed to God. It is not God praying to God. In doing this the Son would have been subordinate to the Father. Only man needs to pray, not God. All these distinctions in the Father-Son relationship can be seen after the Incarnation. Jesus is both God and man, yet God wanted to be fully man so He let that nature rule in Him as man. That is why He did not know everything, that is why He bent to His Father's will and not His own, that is why He prayed, that is why He felt all those emotions He did and that is where the problem lies. In the Trinity you have Jesus' deity being separated from the Father's deity, when the distinction should be between the Father as deity and Jesus' humanity. God never stops being God when He takes on flesh and BECAME A MAN (JESUS), even trini's will attest to this. While Jesus was here on earth as God, He was in heaven too. Jesus was God in the flesh, the only image we will ever see of Him. You have to get the humanity in there to understand what God is trying to show you. The trinity has been around so long people take it for granted as right. It is man-made and the Bible through interpretation has bent to it, but the real truth is in the Bible and it is the Oneness of God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 18, 2006 *sigh* Okay....let's get one thing straight. Trinitarians DO NOT BELIEVE that there are THREE SEPERATE GODS. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are ONE HOWEVER I think the difference between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit is in more than just title, like being one guy but being called "daddy" and "Dr. Smith" and "hun" and and whathaveyou. Still, it's kindof a good example, even if I feel there's something missing...see, "daddy" can't be at home while "Dr. Smith" is at the office. With God, this is entirely different. If Jesus and the Father were just like daddy and Dr. Smith, Jesus would not have said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 . It is man-made and the Bible through interpretation has bent to it, but the real truth is in the Bible and it is the Oneness of God! On this we will have to disagree. The fatal shortcoming of the position you are espousing is that you must deny a multitude of scriptures that speak to the personal relationships that exist between the members of the God-head (or you must affirm that they were an allusion and not real). If you believe that there were not distinct prsonalities withing the God-head you must redefine what it means that The Son makes intercession before the father for us, and that Jesus sent the Spriit into the world. You damage the heart of the doctrin of the atonement, namely that the Father sent the eternal Son into the world and that the Father turned His back on the Son. You also damage the doctine of the independence of God, because without the relationships that exist within the God-head, God would need humanit for relationship. You also damage the doctrine of the God-Man. You imply that His divine and human natures acted independently of each other. These natures, according to scripture, were indivisible The doctrine of the trinity encapsulates all of the verses that speak to the nature of God. One-ness theology ignores or changes verses to fit its structure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,173 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,900 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 QUOTE Exod 24 10Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet (15) there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank. QUOTE John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, ' AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed. Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him. So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of, is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament. Looking further: QUOTE John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life and the life was the light of men. QUOTE John 1:9 There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world and the world was made through Him and the world did not know Him. John 8:57-59 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." NASB It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the old testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning. It seems to me that the people of the old testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh. Further: QUOTE Philippians 2:5+ Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with god a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the old testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth. Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body. QUOTE John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; QUOTE John 17:20 Jesus prayed " I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their work: that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me" It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit QUOTE 1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also come the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put al His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection, to Him. And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, That God may be all in all. Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father. I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father. 1 Cor 8:5-6 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him. NASB We have one God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chad Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 . It is man-made and the Bible through interpretation has bent to it, but the real truth is in the Bible and it is the Oneness of God! On this we will have to disagree. The fatal shortcoming of the position you are espousing is that you must deny a multitude of scriptures that speak to the personal relationships that exist between the members of the God-head (or you must affirm that they were an allusion and not real). If you believe that there were not distinct prsonalities withing the God-head you must redefine what it means that The Son makes intercession before the father for us, and that Jesus sent the Spriit into the world. You damage the heart of the doctrin of the atonement, namely that the Father sent the eternal Son into the world and that the Father turned His back on the Son. You also damage the doctine of the independence of God, because without the relationships that exist within the God-head, God would need humanit for relationship. You also damage the doctrine of the God-Man. You imply that His divine and human natures acted independently of each other. These natures, according to scripture, were indivisible The doctrine of the trinity encapsulates all of the verses that speak to the nature of God. One-ness theology ignores or changes verses to fit its structure You should find out what we believe before you start telling us what we believe. The things you have said about us are not true at all. The "oneness" beliefs is what I am referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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