Worthy News: South Dakota House passes ban on abortion, challenging co

[Kabowd]

You guys are bashing me as if I was promoting abortion.

First of all, where have we "bashed" on you? Because we disagreed with you and pointed out the flaws in your argument, you consider that bashing?

Sure, even then that child should be considered alive at conception but we have to choose the lesser of two evils..

Why? If you agree that it is evil, why should it be a choice at all? You still have not responded to my earlier post regarding the supposed need for "compromise" either.

As long as the fetus does not suffer I see no need to force any woman to give birth to a child concieved under such circumstances.

Your terminology indicates your warped view. It's called a baby...a life...a human being...it's not just a fetus. Secondly, what do you consider suffering? Being denied the right to live would be comparable to suffering in my book. Again, you are advocating that a child should be punished because of someone else's sin. Each human being is created in the image of God. Advocating that any human being could be denied the right to live (regardless of age and/or perceived "quality of life") is a direct assault on the image of God. And by the way, you're on a slippery slope when you start to frame your values around the amount of "suffering" involved. Shooting an infant in the head would be less painful than aborting it inutero. Are you going to advocate that also?

Try not to make me out to be a bad person because I show an equal amount of pity on both the fetus and the rape victim. This is the one circumstance where I feel the woman should be allowed to choose. Rape and risk to the mother are the only abortions I could concievably consider permissable/necessary.

Why should anyone be allowed the legal right to kill another human being? Why? It's not like there isn't another alternative....it's called adoption. Thousands upon thousands of couples seek to adopt children each year. Why not give them the opportunity of loving and raising the child? This still gives the rape victim a choice: to keep the baby or to give it up for adoption. By allowing her to abort her baby, she becomes no different than her rapist. He sinned in raping her, she sins in murdering an innocent child. If you truly care about the mental health of a woman who has been raped, you will not add to her grief by allowing her the option of murdering her child. Living with the knowledge that you ended a life is just as traumatic (if not more so) than living with the memory of being raped.

You must understand that a woman that was raped might, at this point, consider that child an abomination. I cannot simply disregard the mental health of the victim. What would any of you suggest be done for the rape victim? Government funded counciling? There should definately be a law enacted that would secure a womans job should she be required to give birth to this child. Definantely, if there is a law preventing the woman from aborting then the government should pay all her hospital bills also.

You really should educate yourself on such an important issue before forming your opinion. First, just because someone might wrongly consider an innocent child to be an abomination does not mean we should inact a law to enable and re-inforce this wrong perception. She should be educated and counseled so that she realizes that the child is not to blame. This is what it means to truly care for someone's mental health, by the way. You claim to care for the rape victim, but your stance would only harm her more. Secondly, I guess you are not aware that there are SEVERAL agencies that are on hand for women who are raped. Many of them at no charge to the victim. For one, most prosecuting attorneys and/or law enforcememt offices have special victim's units that work together to protect victims and witnesses once it has been established that someone has been assaulted. In alot of places there's a team in place called the Sexual Assault Response Team that responds immediately (to the crime scene) and cover a wide range of services from collecting physical evidence to offering medical assistance and counseling. Not only that, but most prosecutors who deal with sexual assault have a team of counselors who are readily available to victims for anything (including attending a court proceeding to offer emotional support). So yeah....there are MANY avenues and agencies already set in place to protect a victim and assist them in many many ways.

Last, but not least, you continue to advocate that a rape victim should be allowed to murder her baby...and in doing so you devalue the life of the child that has been conceived. Regardless of how a person is conceived, they are still a human being created in the image of God. They have a purpose and a destiny just as any other human being does who has ever been created. Have you ever heard of James Robison? He is a believer who, along with his wife Betty, established a ministry called Life Today (here is the link to their site) which not only ministers to the needs of people spiritually, but their organization feeds and physically nourishes thousands upon thousands of people (mostly children) each year. This ministry would not have existed had James' mother seen him as an "abomination". You see, James Robison is a product of rape. Thankfully, someone cared enough about both his mother and him to encourage her to give him life.

[Kabowd]

Do you consider the murder of a helpless child the lesser of two evils?

Are you saying that all rape victims should have to give birth to an illigitimate child?

There's no such thing as an illegitimate child. Every person has been created in the image of God, therefore...they are all legitimate.

[Scarletprayers]

Do you consider the murder of a helpless child the lesser of two evils?

Are you saying that all rape victims should have to give birth to an illigitimate child?

There's no such thing as an illegitimate child. Every person has been created in the image of God, therefore...they are all legitimate.

AMEN!

With as many people waiting to adopt, its not like there isn't somebody out there that wouldn't consider that baby a blessing. The mother wouldn't have to deal with the added trauma of a murdered baby, but know that it was alive and where and loved somewhere.

Sorry Tess, notice you addressed all of this!

[Catsmeow]

What if the woman was raped and carried the child full term only to be at risk of dying herself. What then?

I "support" abortion only when the mother will die if she has the baby. Beyond that I consider abortion to be America's holocaust. Its like my grandfather used to say all the time: "Its the consequences of your actions".

The decision to carry the baby when the mother's life is at risk is a personal decision only she can make. If she has other children at home and her family needs her.....then it must be her choice; her decision.

My grandmother was told she'd die if she had my father. She almost DID die. Her choice was to give her life for the life of her child....but God spared her and she lived.

[O'Dannyboy]

And higher values will never be commonplace if we have mindsets such as yours that promotes compromise and bows to popular opinion instead of boldly standing for what is right.

Your terminology indicates your warped view.

I consider it an attack when you belittle and demonise my opinion. I would also like to add that as we are having this discussion you are having an influence on my "mindest" and would apreciate not having my earliest posts thrown in my face as if I had just said them all over again.

I do not wish that any life should ever be terminated prematurely or to fill someone elses selfish needs or desires. I cannot help how much I feel for victims of rape. It just seems unfair that a woman, or worse, a teenager, should have to endure childbirth after the torment and pain of being raped and possibly beaten. I do also understand how unjust it would be to end the life of the fetus.

I am in agreement with all of you that not one life should be cut short without fully contemplating every alternative and the consequences of each choice.

[Kabowd]

I consider it an attack when you belittle and demonise my opinion. I would also like to add that as we are having this discussion you are having an influence on my "mindest" and would apreciate not having my earliest posts thrown in my face as if I had just said them all over again.

Out of everything that has been posted...this is what you respond with? Oi vey. Can you just stick to the topic and the content of what has been posted instead of complaining about the way it has been posted? For one thing, so what if I referred to your mindset? If you're proud of your values (which you seem to be) then why is that in insult? Secondly, I have also repeatedly referred to your "view", and stating that it is warped is the truth, considering the misinformed position you hold. I've shown you where your position is wrong and educated you in the areas that you were ignorant about (such as the rights and privelidges of victims). But instead of responding to the information given, you waste time, energy and thread space to whine about the delivery. *sigh*

I do not wish that any life should ever be terminated prematurely or to fill someone elses selfish needs or desires.

Your position is self-refuting. When you advocate that someone should be able to terminate the life of another, you cannot also hold to the statement above. They are mutually exclusive.

I cannot help how much I feel for victims of rape.

No one is advocating that you should stop caring for victims of rape. I think everyone here has compassion towards those victims. I know someone personally who was brutally raped, my heart goes out to them. But compassion for one victim should not result in zero compassion for another. What you are asserting (that women who are raped should be able to abort) ultimately ends with another victim who gets no compassion at all. Rape already victimizes one person. In the rare instances that conception occurs as a result, it shouldn't further victimize another. What we are trying to show you is that you can still have genuine compassion for a rape victim without giving them the option to kill their unborn. As stated several times now (which you've ignored), allowing her to murder an innocent child would only further damage her already fragile mental state. True compassion would educate her about the choice to give it up for adoption and allow it to flourish in a loving home. She has options, good options, which don't necessitate killing her baby.

It just seems unfair that a woman, or worse, a teenager, should have to endure childbirth after the torment and pain of being raped and possibly beaten.

But it doesn't seem unfair that an innocent child be brutally ripped from the safety of the womb? It's unfair that sin happens in our world, and it's unfair that there are victims as the result of many of these sins. But murdering children inutero is no way to establish fairness for anyone. It doesn't even the balance or remove the pain of the rape itself.

I do also understand how unjust it would be to end the life of the fetus.

Then why do you support someone's "right" to choose this option? And would you please stop referring to it as a fetus. This is just a term widely used to distance a person's mentality from the reality of it being a human being. Why can't you just call it a child or a baby?

I am in agreement with all of you that not one life should be cut short without fully contemplating every alternative and the consequences of each choice.

Whoa...hold up. Don't try to convince yourself that you are in agreement with us if you maintain that our position is that it is just okay as long as a person "fully contemplates every alternative and the consequences". To my knowledge, not a single one of us (other than you) ever stated it would be okay as long as they just "thought it all through". You either adhere to the truth or you don't. Which is it? Do you believe that we are all created in the image of God? If the answer is yes, how can you advocate that any image bearer of God can be denied the right to life?

On a final note, I'd like to ask that you please stick to the actual topic and refrain from the complaining about the perceived "attack". This adds nothing to the topic and only distracts from the important discussion at hand. I did not intentionally mean to offend you, I've only attempted to merely point out the flaws in your view. I regret that you have taken it personally, but I do not regret stating the points that I've made. I only hope that the things we've stated will provoke you to take a long hard look at the values you hold regarding this issue. Thank you.

[MrsSealedEternal]

What if the woman was raped and carried the child full term only to be at risk of dying herself. What then?

I "support" abortion only when the mother will die if she has the baby. Beyond that I consider abortion to be America's holocaust. Its like my grandfather used to say all the time: "Its the consequences of your actions".

The decision to carry the baby when the mother's life is at risk is a personal decision only she can make. If she has other children at home and her family needs her.....then it must be her choice; her decision.

My grandmother was told she'd die if she had my father. She almost DID die. Her choice was to give her life for the life of her child....but God spared her and she lived.

Dear Family in Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour,

Jam 4:14 Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away.

Jam 4:15 Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."

Jam 4:16 But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil.

Jam 4:17 Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin

I would not support abortion if the mother will die if she has the baby because that risk is always present and noone can know for sure what will occur. Time and unforeseen circumstances befall us all. We are asked to trust God when faced with trials and tribulation, and I believe that would be His will for us if we are faced with that situation.

I think your grandmother made the wisest choice, and by the grace and mercy of God both her and your father survived. There is always the possibility that any women or child could die during pregnancy and/or childbirth. Pray over the matter and just leave the decision up to God, knowing that he works all things out for good to those that love Him.

Edited February 16, 2006 by MrsSealedEternal

[O'Dannyboy]

I was hopeful that I would be enlightened by this discussion rather than molested verbally. I lament that at the beginning my views on this topic did not agree with your sensibilities. My views have changed despite the attacks on my character and intelligence. I hope you all have a nice day and can manage to make it through the day without someone doing the same to you. Peace.

[apothanein kerdos]

I was hopeful that I would be enlightened by this discussion rather than molested verbally. I lament that at the beginning my views on this topic did not agree with your sensibilities. My views have changed despite the attacks on my character and intelligence. I hope you all have a nice day and can manage to make it through the day without someone doing the same to you. Peace.

That is HIGHLY inappropiate. If you cannot handle a civilised discussion (which is what this was until you began complaining), then don't enter into it. No one attacked your character, no one "verbally molested you" (which is absurd and you should apologize for even making such an accusation), and no one demeened your opinion. YOu were wrong, you had a warped viewpoint, and you had the false mindset. These are all truths/ Ths only reason this would offend you is if you are holding onto a very fragile arrogance that hates to encounter controversy, especially when accused of having a false world view (which you had).

Buck up son, the world is a dangerous place and sometimes it can be harsh. If you can't handle the truth on a discussion board, there's no way you'll be able to deal with it in real life. What everyone said to you was 100% absolutely true and no one attacked you...you need to get some thicker skin.

[O'Dannyboy]

Perhaps I could use a "thicker skin" especially if a want to participate in a Christian forum. Right? Is that how we are supposed to treat people? Perhaps I am suffering from some mild depression, but the tone in which some things were said did hurt my feelings. I guess I do think I have pretty good morals in spite of what some of you may think.

I think you are right, that I originally placed the needs of the victims above that of the fetus. You are right that the womans torment is nothing compared to unjustly having your life taken. Perhaps I am becomming desensitized to death on a whole. Even where my own life is concerned I do not fear death as much as pain and suffering. I mean, really, how many of you wouldn't give your own life to prevent someone else from suffering unbearable pain?

I may have been overly sensative about how I have been treated throughout this discussion and responded in like fassion. Thank you for sharing your views on this touchy subject and know that I have learned something about myself that I will have to pray for help with.