Split - "Still Spinning"

[Fiosh]

No, actually it does not. Essentially I believe that theosis goes further than simply restoring fellowship, but places us in the position of receiving God's very divine life (Which is imparted through close intimate fellowship, of course), which was lost in the garden. In His creation of man, God breathed into Him the breath of life. He then set that man in the midst of a garden, at the center of which was the tree of life. So although man was complete with body soul and spirit, he still lacked the divine life of God, which was represented in that tree. It is through the sacrifice of Christ that access to that tree is restored. God's righteousness and His holiness (represented by the cherubim & sword) have both been satisfied by the shed blood of Christ and now man can freely partake of that tree. Of course, the culmination of that which is taking place in the lives of God's people will not be realized until the resurrection.

I ask this out of sheer curiousity, since I've never heard this before: Can you explain why you imply that man was not allowed to eat of the tree while he walked in fellowship with God?

To maybe clarify my question a bit...you state that the tree represents the "divine life of God". Why did God withhold that from Adam & Eve? Not sure I follow you.

Thanks,

Fiosh

Sorry if my statements were a little unclear. It is not that man was not permitted to eat of the tree of life or that it was withheld from him prior to the fall. In fact, that man take freely of the tree life was clearly God's intention. However, man partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first so therefore, it was necessary that God cut off the way to the tree of life:

"Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" -- therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life." (Gen. 3:22-24)

No, you were clear, i'm the foggy one. (home with the flu) I confused the tree of life, with the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

If this isn't too far off topic, what does the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" represent; and why were Adam and Eve not permitted to eat of it ? I understand it to represent our dependent status before God, and our need to trust in Him and "lean not on our own understanding". But I've never heard a less "vague" explanation.

If this is too far off topic, I understand.

[David from New Bern]

"Of course, the culmination of that which is taking place in the lives of God's people will not be realized until the resurrection"

There is no disagreement here. Your last line completely satisfied me, but I'm sure there are some in this forum who will disagree with you and I. Like most of these discussions if we keep talking and reducing we will find agreement or at least where we part. Thank you for your willingness to keep reducing it until we communicated. I like it when discussions end this well.

Edited February 27, 2006 by David from New Bern

[Ovedya]

No, actually it does not. Essentially I believe that theosis goes further than simply restoring fellowship, but places us in the position of receiving God's very divine life (Which is imparted through close intimate fellowship, of course), which was lost in the garden. In His creation of man, God breathed into Him the breath of life. He then set that man in the midst of a garden, at the center of which was the tree of life. So although man was complete with body soul and spirit, he still lacked the divine life of God, which was represented in that tree. It is through the sacrifice of Christ that access to that tree is restored. God's righteousness and His holiness (represented by the cherubim & sword) have both been satisfied by the shed blood of Christ and now man can freely partake of that tree. Of course, the culmination of that which is taking place in the lives of God's people will not be realized until the resurrection.

I ask this out of sheer curiousity, since I've never heard this before: Can you explain why you imply that man was not allowed to eat of the tree while he walked in fellowship with God?

To maybe clarify my question a bit...you state that the tree represents the "divine life of God". Why did God withhold that from Adam & Eve? Not sure I follow you.

Thanks,

Fiosh

Sorry if my statements were a little unclear. It is not that man was not permitted to eat of the tree of life or that it was withheld from him prior to the fall. In fact, that man take freely of the tree life was clearly God's intention. However, man partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil first so therefore, it was necessary that God cut off the way to the tree of life:

"Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" -- therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man; and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life." (Gen. 3:22-24)

No, you were clear, i'm the foggy one. (home with the flu) I confused the tree of life, with the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

If this isn't too far off topic, what does the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" represent; and why were Adam and Eve not permitted to eat of it ? I understand it to represent our dependent status before God, and our need to trust in Him and "lean not on our own understanding". But I've never heard a less "vague" explanation.

If this is too far off topic, I understand.

I think answering that question really depends on whether you take the story literally or whether you take it metaphorically. Some say that either tree only "represent" life and death, others believe that they really do. I personally am somewhere in both camps. I believe that the fall was literal - that man literally partook of an evil source, and that source became his means of dependence. However, it's hard for me to deny that there is metaphorical language there also.

The tree of life represents to me the divine and uncreated life of God. I believe that it was a literal tree with literal fruit, capable of bringing God's eternal life into man by his eating of it. Why God chose a tree to accomplish this feat to me, speaks of something deep and profound - that God wants us to take Him as our source of life, of nourshment, of everything.

So if the tree of life is life logically the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is death. Life is not just verses knowledge, it is verses death. The fruit of that tree therefore was the literal embodiment of death. And since death is the end result of sin (Of straying from the mark of God's economy), it was death that came into man at the fall. It was not simply that man became "like God knowing good and evil." It was that death became the factor of separation from God; and actually since the lord of death is Satan himself it is not even wrong to say that it was the Satanic nature that was imparted into man at the fall.

So, to me, the significance of the tree of life is that, because we have access to God's divine life through the death of Christ, His salvation is in life, meaning that, not only has God saved us, but He is saving us by His life day by day, even moment by moment, and He is transforming us by the renewing of our mainds away from the old fallen and corrupted creation, and into the new creation.

[Ovedya]

"Of course, the culmination of that which is taking place in the lives of God's people will not be realized until the resurrection"

There is no disagreement here. Your last line completely satisfied me, but I'm sure there are some in this forum who will disagree with you and I. Like most of these discussions if we keep talking and reducing we will find agreement or at least where we part. Thank you for your willingness to keep reducing it until we communicated. I like it when discussions end this well.

Amen!