News: Mayor of Atlanta Defends Wal Mart

[apothanein kerdos]

No doubt they will be "contributing" a healthy amount to his next election fund. Its sad how easily you can buy a politician these days.

I didn't say that they HAD contributed but that it wouldn't surprise me if they do. As for the those people mentioned that were making fair to good wages working for Wal-mart, that doesn't surprise me either. I'm betting that most of the management at the Wal-mart stores make pretty good money as well. That doesn't negate the fact that they pay far less for labor in China. Its a smart business tactic. I can't imagine that the people in China are being payed less than a standard minimum wage compared to their cost of living and such. Even the distribution centers here in the U.S. pay pretty well after you have been there a couple years. Starting pay is still about $8.50-$9.00 an hour. Definately not enough to support a family on. I would expact the same to be true in China. I admit that this is all speculation considering China is so closed off to the rest of the world.

The thing is, it's not closed off. Look it up, you'll find numerous reports of what goes on in these Chinese factories. There was a Chinese speaker on my campus last year who talked about how he was thrown in prison for 15 years because he refused to deny Christ. His family was able to escape to the US. He didn't see his wife or children for 15 years...he was put into forced labour making clothes and other trinkets...and when he finally was released and then escaped to the US...guess what he saw in Walmart. The same type of clothing he had been producing only a year before.

[Marnie]

How you can buy something that was forcefully produced by your persecuted brothers in the Lord is absolutely beyond me. Another example of an American Christian.

The fact that a "civil rights" leader is advocating a company that violates civil rights is absolutely absurd, and dannyboy is right, he'll probably get money for supporting them.

Oh yeah, wonderful Wal-Mart!

Hang on, I'll respond after I get my oil changed. At Wal Mart.

[Guest nofear]

Prisions around the world are the new legal way to promote slavery around the world. Haven't you noticed how minor offenses carry the maxium sentences? Cheap labor. It's not just happening in China, this is also a common practice in the good old USA.

[Marnie]

Prisions around the world are the new legal way to promote slavery around the world. Haven't you noticed how minor offenses carry the maxium sentences? Cheap labor. It's not just happening in China, this is also a common practice in the good old USA.

Hmmmm......I need to think on that. I agree about the nutty sentences, though.

[apothanein kerdos]

Hang on, I'll respond after I get my oil changed. At Wal Mart.

No you won't. That's one of your other pathetic attempts to incite an emotional response. You've done it plenty of times. You don't debate, you just try and get the other person to act on emotions.

The fact is, you will never respond because you don't have an adequate reply. You can't find evidence to discredit the fact Walmart is using Chinese companies that regularly violate basic human rights, specifically Christian slave labour. Now you can come back and say, "Well what about those children if we cut their jobs out from them?" I point you to the turn of the century where we did that in the US and Europe did likewise and our economy boomed shortly thereafter. We need to make it to where if China wants to compete with the US market, they need to treat their employees in a fair manner.

Prisions around the world are the new legal way to promote slavery around the world. Haven't you noticed how minor offenses carry the maxium sentences? Cheap labor. It's not just happening in China, this is also a common practice in the good old USA.

I have no problem with people who have legitimately broken the law, such as murderer or theif or drug addict, being put into "forced labour" if they are compensated for their work. Such as Target uses US prisnors who are in for hard sentences to make the clothing...they pay them but it's cheap...and I have no problem with that. Those guys have legitimately broken the law and to pay back to society what they owe.

China, however, uses people who are Christians to do this. Likewise, they use children to accomplish the same means. The difference between the US and China are night and day when it comes to labour laws and practices.

[Marnie]

Okay, my oil is changed.

Now, I agree that boycotts don't usually work. We have already had this discussion about slave labor in China, and there is no way I would subject anybody to that again! We'll never see eye-to-eye on this issue.

I know when the Millennium starts all G-d's children will be treated with justice and equity. You know, I care about children, all children, but how far do we go here? If you look deep enough, you wouldn't be able to buy anything anywhere because of broken labor laws or political things happening on the other side of the world. I see the PC(USA) is calling for a boycott of McDonalds because of the tomatoes they use, for Pete's sake. I mean, people's hearts need to change, but legistlation won't do that.

I know, you can't reason with Satanic-hedonistic-capitalist blonde woman.

Edited March 2, 2006 by Marnie

[apothanein kerdos]

The thing is, it's not closed off. Look it up, you'll find numerous reports of what goes on in these Chinese factories. There was a Chinese speaker on my campus last year who talked about how he was thrown in prison for 15 years because he refused to deny Christ. His family was able to escape to the US. He didn't see his wife or children for 15 years...he was put into forced labour making clothes and other trinkets...and when he finally was released and then escaped to the US...guess what he saw in Walmart. The same type of clothing he had been producing only a year before.

I have no doubt that what you are saying about the conditions in China are true. I just do not believe refusing to shop at Wal-Mart will make things better for them. Instead of Christians being forced to work as slave labor, they might decide to thrown them in prison or kill them. If they are not useful to the state, they wouldn't want them around.

I would support a complete ban on all Chinese made goods in the United States. That would have a major impact on their government. If that was what you were proposing, I would be right there with you, but I will not do what I consider to be an exercise in futility, support a boycott of Wal-Mart.

I would also consider a military strike on China, so we could overthrown the ruthless dictators and rescue the Christians. You have made a great case that they are being mistreated over there. They are our brothers and sisters, so why not use the military to rescue them? That is the fastest method of making their lives better. Boycotts could take decades to bring about even a small amount of change, and may fail.

Burt, I actually agree with you. I think that we should boycott China as a government and people. Not allowing their products into the US UNTIL they give fair treatment to their people would be absolutely wonderful. I highly doubt this would lead to the death of Christians....as it is, not all Christians are thrown into prisons. Those that are nto able bodied end up in prison no matter what. Those that are abled body end up becomming slaves. If we boycott, this only forces them to do what they are already doing. Likewise....do we continue to benefit from Christian slave labour....or refuse to purchase it and kill them?

I'm not sure if military action is needed at this point....let the boycott and import ban do its natural thing (force the economy to change). If that doesn't work, I would not be opposed to military action.

I know when the Millennium starts all G-d's children will be treated with justice and equity. You know, I care about children, all children, but how far do we go here? If you look deep enough, you wouldn't be able to buy anything anywhere because of broken labor laws or political things happening on the other side of the world. I see the PC(USA) is calling for a boycott of McDonalds because of the tomatoes they use, for Pete's sake. I mean, people's hearts need to change, but legistlation won't do that.

Legislation won't change people's hearts in most cases, but it does change the way people live. Notice slavery in the US and anti-segregation laws were brought to an end by the law (and one bloody war). Laws brought an end to child labour in the US. Laws brought about an end to most injustice in the corporate world. And yes, at some level, we're going to find fault in all the things we own....that's unfortunate. But this does not mean we should be inactive on it. Once we discover something we own or use is using slave labour or child labour somewhere down the line, we need to stop using that product and take action. All you're supporting is a form of apathetic laziness....show me where you are Biblically justified in that. Why help the mentally handicapped when they'll always be around? Why stop murder when it will always occur? Why be against abortion when it will still happen? Why create laws against theft when we know people will still steal? That is the area of your logic.

As for us discussing this before...no....yo unever discussed it. You never offered counter analysis, you never offered counte rproof, you never even responded to a single one of my posts. Burtero did and go did Giour, but you didn't. So don't claim like we've had this discussion, because you and I have not. Notice that both Butero and Giaour agreed that slave/child labour was occuring in China, they merely disagree on how to handle it. To date you are the only person I know of that denies this is occuring in China.