Bible interpretation

[buckthesystem]

I am kind of new to Christianity, I have called myself a Christian for a couple of years since I started going to church, but having said that, I haven't really delved much into it - I use "lack of time" as my excuse (a pretty bad one I know).

Why I made the decision in the first place was perhaps not for the best reasons in the world. I just came to that decision after being inspired by a couple of people to read a lot of books, but as the two people who originally brought it to my attention are now dead I am in a bit of a quandry. After about three years of solid reading I came to the conclusion that "it is all true". The book that "tipped the scales" in the end was "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. So there was no "dramatic conversion" and I am still waiting to see something concrete - I hope I would recognise it. Am I being too simplistic?

Anyway, my immediate question is interpretation of the Bible. I have figured out what most of it says after the really stupid reactions I had from some of the passages (like the one where Jesus says "follow me" and the man says "let me just bury my father first" - or words to that effect. I thought originally that the man's father was lying dead in the house and the son was in the middle of arranging a funeral and I thought "but surely....").

I digress again, the thing now is that I am trying to reconcile Romans 13 with my beliefs about the world. It seems that people use Romans 13 to "justify" any horrible action including mass murder and genocide by governments. This has got to be wrong.

I have known for quite a while that there is nothing in the Bible that has ever been proved to be wrong and no archeological discovery made ever that disproves what the Bible says.

Therefore, any error that does seem to exist must be of man's making, i.e. interpretation. I have had a problem with what Romans 13 seems to say. If we are to take that literally, it seems to go against the experiences of peoples throughout the ages, and goes against long-held beliefs of mine. The part where it says "the authorities that exist are appointed by God, and those who resist will bring judgement on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority. Do what is good and you will have praise from the same," really "challenges" me. This would be fine if I could convince myself that this was referring to Church authorities alone and not government employees in general, politicians, bureaucrats, traffic cops or local council employees, but I think if that were the case it would be clearer.

I would really appreciate some help here. Any views?

I asked someone else this question and he came up with "'Rulers' means ministers ordained by God, not worldly rulers. Likewise the power means God and God's law, not that of any worldly ruler. Worldly rulers praise evil as much as good". And it goes on, but that is basically the gist.

I am concerned about the fact that so many people seem to use their belief in Romans 13 to also justify not being interested in politics at all, and not even caring about what is basically wrong with society and accepting "any old garbage" and "legislation" (same thing really) that governments come out with.

I think that this is why you do not get Christian movements being lobby groups against things like (say) the imposition of the id card/NIR legislation in UK, and all the other nasty things that governments impose on us. NZ certainly has its share of "anti-people" (or government greed policies) as well.

It would be good to find out how others actually do interpret Romans 13 and what their attitude towards it really is.

[nebula]

A very good question!

And I hope that by the time we are through picking apart this subject we don't confuse you even more!

Instead of telling you how I reconcile this chapter, though, I would like to encourage you with this.

Get some place quiet, still your thoughts, and just talk to the Lord - tell Him your confusion with this chapter and ask Him to speak to you about the meaning of this chapter and how it relates to your life, how He wants you to obey this with regards to those thngs that concern you. And then wait. Just be still and concentrate your thoughts on the Lord, and see what He puts in your mind.

OK?

[Guest shiloh357]

It would be good to find out how others actually do interpret Romans 13 and what their attitude towards it really is.

Welcome!!

I will repost something I said along these lines in another thread I hope it helps you.

Regarding Romans 13: 1-6... It is interesting really, here you have Paul, a man whose people is under the rulership of the often very brutal Roman Empire. He is contemplating Christian behavior in such an environment, especially since Chritianity speaks of rearing up a Kingdom in the midst of kingdoms and empires around the world.

Rome was a pagan kingdom. Its lawmakers were pagans, and its laws suited to the tastes and ambitions of paganism. It was a governement founded upon conquest and brutal dictatorship. Rome's leaders were typically very unprincipled men, given over to many evil perverted vices I will not even mention.

Consider that the majority of the church at this time, were Jews and there were Jewish believers in Rome. They had seen their nation groan under Roman oppression and brutality. These were the people of the Torah, who had been given the Torah, the single greatest "law code" ever to exist; the very Torah which proclaimed that Israel would be made "high above the nations." Now, they see their great nation being controlled by, and being forced to pay tribute to, a pagan government steeped in idolatry. It is with these feelings that they became Christians.

So, it is natural that this disdain for Roman culture would carry over after finding new faith in the Messiah. So the question arises, how far should a Christian submit? This question would also be very relavent to the Gentiles who have also come to faith in Jesus, and now look with disgust at the idolatry of their former culture.

I also find it interesting that Paul simply states that we are to submit the "power(s)" (the Jewish way of saying "government"). We are to recognize that their position is of God. The fact that some who occupy that office might abuse its privledges, is irrelevant. The person themselves may not be godly, but we are to respect the office, and offer all due respect nonetheless. It does not mean that we have to agree with everything they say or do, but we are not speak evil, to slander, or malign those who are in authority over us. Paul says this to two groups of people who are abhorred by the culture and conduct of the environment in which they find themselves.

Go on to verse 7. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

(Romans 13:7)

We are to render them all due taxes, levies and whatever is lawfully and properly due from us. But then he says "fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor." He is saying from what I can see, that we are to fear offending them. He is not talking about fearing punishment, since only rebels have anything to fear in that sense. We are to shrink back from anything that would offend the office, and we are to offer heartfelt honor to the office and the one who occupies it.

If you go down the rest of the chapter, Paul finishes this subject by saying that we need to walk in true love, put off the works of darkness, and put on the Lord Jesus Christ. We are to conduct ourselves in this present world, and especially before our government as the Lord Jesus would. Christians, according to this entire chapter, should be the best friends the government has!!! We should be the ones they can depend on most to uphold that which is good. We should ought to be first to pay our taxes, and be the most upstanding citizens in the land. We should stand out in their eyes as the easiest to govern and the best citizens. We should treat them as God's tool for our good. We might see more politicians, and people in law enforcement become Christians because of how much they have been blessed by the Christians they govern!!!

Now in Titus 3:1-2, Paul is exhorting them to be subject to the rulers, the magistrates and to be read for every goodwork. I see this as cheerful obedience. They are not only obey but to be prompt to doing the good enjoined by those in rulership. They are to be prompt in the payment of their duties, taxes, levies, etc. Ready to give to Caesar all that which is due him, and to do such with a cheerful heart and with all due honor to the office. According to verse 2, we are not to engage in evil speech especially when it is detrimental to the civil government and produces disturbances that make more difficult, the task of governing. Christians ought not to be troublemakers in their cities, but to be sterling examples of good citizenry.