Knowledge

[mike2]

Man, don't sweat it.

God is bigger than man, and he's big enough to see that His people have all that they need. (even His word translated in english)

Some translations are to be avoided i'm sure, but my 'New King James' is sufficiant enough to give me the general information it takes to educate me as to Gods character and what He expects from me as His child.

The Holy Spirit is my teacher and if He ever prompts me to become a greek scholar I will, but until them I won't tamper with the simplicity of the gospel inspired by God and handed down to man through every generation.

Man will try to burden you down with all kinds of legalities and requirements, but God is so simplistic.

Anytime you feel pressured and weighd down you've came out from under God and gotten under man.

Rember...

"Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden light."

Man will yoke you to a plow if you let him, just enjoy what God has given you and how he's given it.

"where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom!!"

I agree with you jamie, God has made the bible so that anyone can understand it.

Our relationships with God vary in depth and that is expected because all of us have different backgrounds.God is God to all of us and the wonderful thing about the bible is that it can be easily understood or challenging depending on what you are looking for.

I don't let it bother me that someone may go into their studies differently than me.

Although I do find that I have to ask myself "is what this person saying honest and true or are they just being argumentative", I let the Spirit put Gods feeling in me or not, I listen or tune them out, but I ask for the Spirits discernment

I think there are plenty of examples where Christians, out of ignorance, have gotten the true meaning of the bible wrong.

I also think that there are instances where someone digging into the original languages have taken words out of context in order to push forward a theory or way of thinking.

[Guest man]

Man, don't sweat it.

God is bigger than man, and he's big enough to see that His people have all that they need. (even His word translated in english)

Some translations are to be avoided i'm sure, but my 'New King James' is sufficiant enough to give me the general information it takes to educate me as to Gods character and what He expects from me as His child.

The Holy Spirit is my teacher and if He ever prompts me to become a greek scholar I will, but until them I won't tamper with the simplicity of the gospel inspired by God and handed down to man through every generation.

Man will try to burden you down with all kinds of legalities and requirements, but God is so simplistic.

Anytime you feel pressured and weighd down you've came out from under God and gotten under man.

Rember...

"Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden light."

Man will yoke you to a plow if you let him, just enjoy what God has given you and how he's given it.

"where the spirit of the Lord is there is freedom!!"

I agree. I don't see the point in learning another language in order to get closer to Christ.

"For many are called but few are chosen". He chooses us, we don't choose Him. We can choose to follow Christ but He has the final word.

I believe that if there's something we should know, He'll show it to us, no matter what language it's in.

That's my take on this. I know I'll get slammed but it is what it is.

Knowing the original languages doesn't necessarily help you get closer to God (though it can help), what it is for is so we get a proper translation. Everyone says, "If I need to know then the Lord will tell me so." Or, "If I am suppose to know this then the Holy Spirit will tell me." Not only is this faulty logic, it simply is not found in the Bible.

I am reminded of three kids preparing for the same test. This test was one of the hardest tests a person could take in the subject of history. The first one chose to rely solely upon the Holy Spirit; he did not study the test, he only held a cursory knowledge of the subject matter, but instead spent the time praying to God asking Him to give him the knowledge. The second one studied on his own merit, forgoing prayer to God and relying on his own abilities to get things done. The third prayed to God and asked Him to help him remember the subject material, to gain retention whilst studying. The third one studied but asked for the aid of the Holy Spirit in the study.

The day of the test the first and second student both failed. The first because he did not know the subject at all and the second because he had retained and not understood anything. The third, however, passed.

Christianity is the same way. We can't just walk along and go, "If I am to know it, God will show me." That is lazy faith, faith that requires absolutely no learning on our part. This stands in contrast to the Psalms which tells us to grow in wisdom AND understanding. The Hebrew word for "understanding" is knowledge. When we say, "God will show us" and then never make an effort to be educated, I'm sorry, but God will not show you. Why would He let you be lazy in your faith?

Regardless, learning Greek and Hebrew is essential. Just today I had some Jehovah Witnesses come to my door. During the course of conversation we ended up in John 1:1. They read their version, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was a god." I then pointed that, to the Greek, there is no justification to put the article "a" in there. They couldn't counter what I was saying because we were dealing with grammatical rules. My knowledge of Greek helped prevent a false belief and heresy from being uttered on my front porch...likewise it silenced the false teachers. God does not allow us to give a half effort. He demands we love Him (love is a verb filled with actions to God) with all of our heart, soul, strength, and mind. If we go, "Eh, I don't see a reason to learn this" when it deals with interpretation of the Scriptures, we are essentially refusing to give God all of our mind.

I disagree.

Everything we need to know is in the bible. I never said we shouldn't study. But if we were suppose to learn another language in order to understand the will of God, He would have said so.

Salvation is for everyone. It doesn't matter what your level of education is. God chose the simple things to confound the minds of the world. You don't understand because it's so simple. People look for a deeper meaning of something when there isn't any. Everything you need to know is in that book. If you have a question, the answer is in there. ( somewhere )

I agree with you about lazy faith. Many people are in for a rude awakening.

[apothanein kerdos]

I disagree.

Everything we need to know is in the bible. I never said we shouldn't study. But if we were suppose to learn another language in order to understand the will of God, He would have said so.

Again, this is faulty logic. The reason the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek is because those were their languages. Why would Paul have instructed the Greeks to learn Greek in order to read what was already written in Greek? If I attempt to translate "Of Mice and Men" into Russian, there will be something lost in the translation. Though the Russians would understand it, to get the full impact they would have to study in English.

It is the same with the Bible. We can still get the truth out of a translation, but it is still distorted and still not as adequate as it would be in Greek or Hebrew. Likewise, there are a lot of things we are suppose to do that are not specifically laid out in the Bible. Regardless, we are told to use our minds as Christians and part of this would be understanding the original Greek and Hebrew.

Salvation is for everyone. It doesn't matter what your level of education is. God chose the simple things to confound the minds of the world. You don't understand because it's so simple. People look for a deeper meaning of something when there isn't any. Everything you need to know is in that book. If you have a question, the answer is in there. ( somewhere )

Salvation is for everyone, however when we accept Christ we are transformed. The Gospel message is simple in that a child can understand it, but complicated in how we live it.

Regardless, if we follow scripture we find that Peter disagrees with you:

"Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen." 2 Peter 3:14-18

The emphasis is mine.

Notice some key facts about this passage:

* The writings of Paul are hard to understand, not simplistic like you want them to be.

* It is the unlearned that distort what is being said, thus those who refuse to learn often end up having a false belief.

* They do this with the entirety of Scripture, meaning that all of Scriptue takes someone who has learned to interpret it.

* One way to prevent this is to grow in knowledge. This comes from the Greek word gnosis which signifies intelligence through study and then applying it.

Put simply, as Christians we are to grow in knowledge of the Lord...part of this includes learning the original languages so we can understand the context they are in.

Again, you are relying on lazy faith when you go, "Eh, God will tell me if it's important." THis simply is not true and lacks scriptural backing.

[Guest man]

I disagree.

Everything we need to know is in the bible. I never said we shouldn't study. But if we were suppose to learn another language in order to understand the will of God, He would have said so.

Again, this is faulty logic. The reason the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek is because those were their languages. Why would Paul have instructed the Greeks to learn Greek in order to read what was already written in Greek? If I attempt to translate "Of Mice and Men" into Russian, there will be something lost in the translation. Though the Russians would understand it, to get the full impact they would have to study in English.

It is the same with the Bible. We can still get the truth out of a translation, but it is still distorted and still not as adequate as it would be in Greek or Hebrew. Likewise, there are a lot of things we are suppose to do that are not specifically laid out in the Bible. Regardless, we are told to use our minds as Christians and part of this would be understanding the original Greek and Hebrew.

Salvation is for everyone. It doesn't matter what your level of education is. God chose the simple things to confound the minds of the world. You don't understand because it's so simple. People look for a deeper meaning of something when there isn't any. Everything you need to know is in that book. If you have a question, the answer is in there. ( somewhere )

Salvation is for everyone, however when we accept Christ we are transformed. The Gospel message is simple in that a child can understand it, but complicated in how we live it.

Regardless, if we follow scripture we find that Peter disagrees with you:

"Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen." 2 Peter 3:14-18

The emphasis is mine.

Notice some key facts about this passage:

* The writings of Paul are hard to understand, not simplistic like you want them to be.

* It is the unlearned that distort what is being said, thus those who refuse to learn often end up having a false belief.

* They do this with the entirety of Scripture, meaning that all of Scriptue takes someone who has learned to interpret it.

* One way to prevent this is to grow in knowledge. This comes from the Greek word gnosis which signifies intelligence through study and then applying it.

Put simply, as Christians we are to grow in knowledge of the Lord...part of this includes learning the original languages so we can understand the context they are in.

Again, you are relying on lazy faith when you go, "Eh, God will tell me if it's important." THis simply is not true and lacks scriptural backing.

So what you're saying is, the only way I can gain knowledge of the Lord is to learn Greek and Hebrew?

[apothanein kerdos]

I disagree.

Everything we need to know is in the bible. I never said we shouldn't study. But if we were suppose to learn another language in order to understand the will of God, He would have said so.

Again, this is faulty logic. The reason the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek is because those were their languages. Why would Paul have instructed the Greeks to learn Greek in order to read what was already written in Greek? If I attempt to translate "Of Mice and Men" into Russian, there will be something lost in the translation. Though the Russians would understand it, to get the full impact they would have to study in English.

It is the same with the Bible. We can still get the truth out of a translation, but it is still distorted and still not as adequate as it would be in Greek or Hebrew. Likewise, there are a lot of things we are suppose to do that are not specifically laid out in the Bible. Regardless, we are told to use our minds as Christians and part of this would be understanding the original Greek and Hebrew.

Salvation is for everyone. It doesn't matter what your level of education is. God chose the simple things to confound the minds of the world. You don't understand because it's so simple. People look for a deeper meaning of something when there isn't any. Everything you need to know is in that book. If you have a question, the answer is in there. ( somewhere )

Salvation is for everyone, however when we accept Christ we are transformed. The Gospel message is simple in that a child can understand it, but complicated in how we live it.

Regardless, if we follow scripture we find that Peter disagrees with you:

"Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen." 2 Peter 3:14-18

The emphasis is mine.

Notice some key facts about this passage:

* The writings of Paul are hard to understand, not simplistic like you want them to be.

* It is the unlearned that distort what is being said, thus those who refuse to learn often end up having a false belief.

* They do this with the entirety of Scripture, meaning that all of Scriptue takes someone who has learned to interpret it.

* One way to prevent this is to grow in knowledge. This comes from the Greek word gnosis which signifies intelligence through study and then applying it.

Put simply, as Christians we are to grow in knowledge of the Lord...part of this includes learning the original languages so we can understand the context they are in.

Again, you are relying on lazy faith when you go, "Eh, God will tell me if it's important." THis simply is not true and lacks scriptural backing.

So what you're saying is, the only way I can gain knowledge of the Lord is to learn Greek and Hebrew?

Where in there did I say it was the only way? Here is what I have said:

We can still get the truth out of a translation, but it is still distorted and still not as adequate as it would be in Greek or Hebrew.

Knowing the original languages doesn't necessarily help you get closer to God (though it can help), what it is for is so we get a proper translation.

Put simply, as Christians we are to grow in knowledge of the Lord...part of this includes learning the original languages so we can understand the context they are in.

In other words, it is important, it aids us greatly, I would even say every Christian should learn at least Greek...but it is not the [i[only way. It is merely a part of growing in our knowledge of God.

[Guest man]

So learning a different language isn't necessary to gain knowledge of the Lord. That is what you're saying...right?

[apothanein kerdos]

So learning a different language isn't necessary to gain knowledge of the Lord. That is what you're saying...right?

No, it's not, and I'm growing tired of you trying to say something that I haven't said. In fact, I've said the exact opposite and I have laid out my position in very clear and easy to understand words.

Greek and Hebrew is necessary to gain a deeper understanding of the Lord, but is not necessary to have a non-exhaustive knowledge of the Lord.

[Guest man]

So learning a different language isn't necessary to gain knowledge of the Lord. That is what you're saying...right?

No, it's not, and I'm growing tired of you trying to say something that I haven't said. In fact, I've said the exact opposite and I have laid out my position in very clear and easy to understand words.

Greek and Hebrew is necessary to gain a deeper understanding of the Lord, but is not necessary to have a non-exhaustive knowledge of the Lord.

So without Greek or Hebrew, I can have knowledge of the Lord but not a very deep understanding?

[apothanein kerdos]

So learning a different language isn't necessary to gain knowledge of the Lord. That is what you're saying...right?

No, it's not, and I'm growing tired of you trying to say something that I haven't said. In fact, I've said the exact opposite and I have laid out my position in very clear and easy to understand words.

Greek and Hebrew is necessary to gain a deeper understanding of the Lord, but is not necessary to have a non-exhaustive knowledge of the Lord.

So without Greek or Hebrew, I can have knowledge of the Lord but not a very deep understanding?

Right. At some point we have to look up the original meaning of a passage to get the full effect of it.

[Kabowd]

Man, think of it this way. In english we could say:

"I love my dog"

"I love my brother"

"I love my wife"

In english, we have only one word for each phrase, however in Greek there are more specific words for "love" to describe the exact type of emotion being expressed. If a person said they loved you in Greek....wouldn't you want to know if they meant that they loved you like a brother, or loved you romantically?