News: Spirituality May Be Hot in America

[Marnie]

What church would you suggest we attend?

Why, the right one, of course. Come on, this is America, there is a church on every street corner. How hard can it be to find one that preaches the Word of G-d uncompromisingly and upholds the dictates of Scripture? I was saved just a few weeks and even I knew I needed instruction in my new life. I visited three or four churches and found one that more than met my needs. If an ignorant person like me can find a church, surely you can. But, I know that 11 o'clock hour on Sunday morning is precious to everybody, especially those who play golf, but is one hour a week too much to give to the Lord?

[other one]

Marnie, I've been ask to leave more churches than that just for asking questions in Sunday School Classes. See, I grew up in a church that did not teach the whole bible and I am a bit more sensitive about where I go. I have read or listened to the Bible so many times I can't even count them, and I have heard just about every sermon one can emagine from a lifetime of attending different congregations and watching and taping several church services a week when I was a director at a couple of television stations........ I have learned more researching topics here at worthy than I have in the past 30 years at several churches I not only attended but was a part of.

If you really get involved and you don't "believe" what is being taught at a church, you really must either cause problems or sit back and be bored or worse yet just hate to be there............

One does not have to go to a "church" to be a Christian, you can invest in both time and financially with groups or organizations that actually help people every day.

I am very happy for you that you have a group that you enjoy, I do also, it is just not in one single building.......

[Gerioke]

Marnie, I've been ask to leave more churches than that just for asking questions in Sunday School Classes. See, I grew up in a church that did not teach the whole bible and I am a bit more sensitive about where I go. I have read or listened to the Bible so many times I can't even count them, and I have heard just about every sermon one can emagine from a lifetime of attending different congregations and watching and taping several church services a week when I was a director at a couple of television stations........ I have learned more researching topics here at worthy than I have in the past 30 years at several churches I not only attended but was a part of.

If you really get involved and you don't "believe" what is being taught at a church, you really must either cause problems or sit back and be bored or worse yet just hate to be there............

One does not have to go to a "church" to be a Christian, you can invest in both time and financially with groups or organizations that actually help people every day.

I am very happy for you that you have a group that you enjoy, I do also, it is just not in one single building.......

[O'Dannyboy]

I am all about the small groups joining to discuss the word. I always try to imagine what it was like for the apostles when Jesus would leave them alone to discuss his teachings. I no longer expect to learn anything from the services at church. There is wonderful testimony and much rejoicing and praising, but in the end, I learn the most in bible study classes and groups. Much of what I see as far, as services go, are productions which aren't much better than the rituals and traditions that the catholics cling to. I guess I am still at an empasse. I am still an infant in the word, but I can testify to the loads of powdered milk thats being passed off as the real thing. Its like the runt of the little trying to wrestle with his siblings for 5 minutes at a teet. When I go to service I DO wish to be taught and not preached at. The difference for me is that a preacher is little more than a barker in a market, and a teacher or Rabbi will do just that, teach. I can appreciate the passion of a "preacher" but passion is not a sign of wisdom, temperance and subtlety are. Preachers have their place in the body just as the rest of us do, and as long as they are doing what they feel driven to do, God bless them. I however choose to look for a nipple that is not so tough. I will stick to the pastors that strive to teach and not to preach. The ones that lead by example, by serving, and not according to their station.

I think the title of this thread indicates why preachers are so popular compared to their not so outspoken brothers in Christ. Spirituality, I think, goes hand in hand with passion. Its less about faith and more about desire, less about wisdom and more about joy, less about grace and more about "tolerance". I long for a teacher like Jesus to teach me and to challenge my moral perceptions and misconceptions about faith and holiness.

[Marnie]

This thread is fascinating. I have never read such animus towards the Church in once place before. And I do apololgize if I offended delicate sensitvities; it seems like many here have been hurt by a church in their past, and I guess that is as good an excuse as any to tar all churches with the same brush and avoid them for fear of getting hurt again.

May I ask some of you to respond to the following Scriptures and points:

The Bible warns against forsaking the assembly: Heb 10:25

a. Acts 20:7 tells us they came together for the purpose of breaking bread

b. The book of 1 Corinthians gives us strong evidence Christians met weekly:

--Christians assembled regularly: 1 Cor 11:17-18,20,33; 14:23,26

--1 Cor 16:1,2 giving "EVERY first day" infers habitual weekly assembly.

And in the OT there is ample evidence indicating the importance of gathering together for corportate worship:

1. "I was glad when they said to me, ‘Let us go to the house of the Lord.’" Psalm 122:1

2. "For I used to go along with the throng and lead them in procession to the house of God" Psalm 42:4

3. "We who had sweet fellowship together, walked in the house of God in the throng." Psalm 55:14

4. "I will give Thee thanks in the great congregation; I will praise Thee among a mighty throng." Psalm 35:18

5. "I have proclaimed glad tidings of righteousness in the great congregation; Behold, I will not restrain my lips, O Lord, Thou knowest. I have not hidden Thy righteousness within my heart; I have spoken of Thy faithfulness and Thy salvation; I have not concealed Thy lovingkindness and Thy truth from the great congregation." Psalm 40:9-10

6. "Praise the Lord! Sing to the Lord a new song, And His praise in the congregation of the godly ones." Psalm 149:1

7. "And you say, "How I have hated instruction! And my heart spurned reproof! "And I have not listened to the voice of my teachers, Nor inclined my ear to my instructors! "I was almost in utter ruin In the midst of the assembly and congregation." Proverbs 5:12-14

8. "I will tell of Thy name to my brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise Thee." Psalm 22:22

9. "Praise the Lord! I will give thanks to the Lord with all my heart, In the company of the upright and in the assembly." Psalm 111:1

Also there is strong evidence from the very early Church that they considered regular Church attendance essential:

* 225 AD The Didascalia (The Teaching of the Apostles): (2) "The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week [sunday] let there be service, and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation [Lord’s Supper], because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2).

225 AD The Didascalia (The Teaching of the Apostles): (3) The apostles further appointed: On the fourth day of the week [Wednesday] let there be service: because on that day our Lord made the disclosure to them about His trial, and His suffering, and His crucifixion, and His death, and His resurrection; and the disciples were on account of this in sorrow.

There are many very valid reasons as to why we should attend the worship services of the church. We might begin by asking ourselves some questions:

First: Has God left man to his choice about the matter? The Bible says in Hebrews 10:25, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching". After the Lord's church was established on Pentecost, it's members met weekly and often daily. Acts 20:7 says, "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.

Second: Is it God's will that we attend church services regularly? Jesus said in Matthew 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them". Remember, Jesus has never forsaken an assembly and every Christian should want to meet with Him.

Thirdly: Is Jesus just as pleased when we do not attend? Listen to his words recorded in Matthew 6:33, "Seek you first the kingdom of God and His righteousness". Here He is saying, that the church must be first to the Christian, even before seeking food, clothing, and shelter. The zeal of the early Christians was seen in the regularity of their meetings - weekly and often daily. Whenever and wherever Christians assemble today, faithful members endeavor to be present. It is most appropriate that this day has become the one memorial day of the gospel both by precept and by example., the day of gladness and rejoicing. It is the Lord's Day and we should use it in a manner befitting its significance.

One is made stronger spiritually by faithful attendance and is fortified against falling away. In I Corinthians 10:11-12, the Apostle Paul stated: "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall". In Hebrews 6:1, the writer says: "Let us go on unto perfection".

We are to render "unto God the things which be God's" Luke 20:25; the first day of the week is the "Lord's Day", Revelation Chapter 1, verse 10. God has a right to say how His day shall be used. We abuse the Lord's Day when we do nothing; when we merely rest or seek entertainment.

Such is not in keeping with the proper observance of the Lord's Day. We should use it to assemble together and to worship God in Spirit and in Truth, John 4:24.

The early church gave the formula for church attendance in Acts 2:42. It reads simply: "They continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine, in fellowship, in breaking of bread and prayer."

I dunno, again I wonder why there is such hostility to church attendance. I am not for religion, by the way, but I don't necessarily equate a local church with "religion."

[abbershay]

lIsten to this program you will be blessed i am sure. It is free and doesnt take long.

Date: 2/13-17/06

Guest: Robert Heidler

Subject: What the early church was like

http://www.sidroth.org/radio.htm

[Marnie]

lIsten to this program you will be blessed i am sure. It is free and doesnt take long.

Date: 2/13-17/06

Guest: Robert Heidler

Subject: What the early church was like

http://www.sidroth.org/radio.htm

[Sonwalkr]

It seems like the world today is stuck in this mindset of "What's in it for me?". People complaining over the most frivolous stuff just to have an excuse to not go to church. If we'd only get back to basics and realize that surrender to the Lord is priority instead of "what we want". To live is Christ, to die is gain.

We shouldn't be going to church for selfish reasons. If we are serving the Lord in the capacity we are able to, we do get blessed beyond what we think we actually get in return. Fulfillment comes from pleasing the Lord with our actions, with the talents He's given us, with our obedience to His word.

Fellowship has its place and rightly so for we are the body of Christ and we each are members joined TOGETHER. You don't see body parts just floating around everywhere, that makes them USELESS. So, there is a reason why the body of believers is to be together in fellowship one with another. It makes the body much more stronger and more useful for His purposes.

Yes, the choir director belongs on Lawrence Welk at my church, but I am going there because I am serving Him with my talents and I have fellowship with the family there. In this world full of unsavory people, there are some gems of people at church who are the best people to be around. If you keep looking at the faults of people which in turn turns you off of going to church, then you need to examine yourself and ask why are you here on earth. People are sinful and imperfect and if we are His, we need to be the light, even in the church. We are here for His purposes, not ours.

[Marnie]

Fellowship has its place and rightly so for we are the body of Christ and we each are members joined TOGETHER. You don't see body parts just floating around everywhere, that makes them USELESS. So, there is a reason why the body of believers is to be together in fellowship one with another. It makes the body much more stronger and more useful for His purposes.

In this world full of unsavory people, there are some gems of people at church who are the best people to be around. If you keep looking at the faults of people which in turn turns you off of going to church, then you need to examine yourself and ask why are you here on earth. People are sinful and imperfect and if we are His, we need to be the light, even in the church. We are here for His purposes, not ours.

Thank you Jason. Thoughtful words. Hmm....why couldn't I put it like that?

[Gerioke]

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middle of them.

Church is where believers come together.