Those Who Believe Isaiah 53:4 .............

[Guest shiloh357]

Why does the subject of Jesus' healing make some Christians angry ?

One of you even called it a stupid subject.

Yes, The context of Acts 10.34 is speaking of God not being partial to any one race or nation, but all through His word He says all men are included in all the blessings He has bestowed through His Son Jesus, so God is no respecter of persons, in regard to who will receive His Salvation. verses 34-38

I had no idea this was a private area, all though some agreed with my view of what Matthew said about Isaiah's prophesy.

AK, Tess, Shiloh, sorry to offend

You are employing the usual imcompentent Word of Faith interpretation of Scripture. Nowhere does God promise that every Christian should be healed. You are evidently not schooled in biblical interpretation. You really need to study the Bible better.

[Matthitjah]

Franky,

The Lord Bless you brother.

Nowhere in Scripture does God guarentee that while in this flesh that we won't see Tribulation. As a Matter of fact He says quite the opposite;

Joh

[Franky67]

Franky,

The Lord Bless you brother.

Nowhere in Scripture does God guarentee that while in this flesh that we won't see Tribulation. As a Matter of fact He says quite the opposite;

Joh

[Kabowd]

Franky,

The Lord Bless you brother.

Nowhere in Scripture does God guarentee that while in this flesh that we won't see Tribulation. As a Matter of fact He says quite the opposite;

Joh 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

God has overcome this world in Christ Jesus. You know this. Your flesh is corruptable and will not be made totally incooruptable until our Lord come. Scripture is quite clear. I personally am losing my hair. Not good for a guy with a conceit problem like mine. Just ask my wife. LOL

Am I lacking of Faith?

Your Doctrine leads to a logical conclussion that no Christian should ever fall ill. Which is really just absurd. There is a sister in my Church who has fallen ill. We are praying for her even now. However her healing comes? We will give God the Glory. She is a sister in Christ. Yet she has fallen ill.

Was this due to a lack of Faith on her part do you suppose?

Peace,

Dave

Hi, Dave

Thank you for the kindness reflected in your response.

My church also has prayed in vain for healing, and the most heart wrenching one was a 13 year old girl who died from cancer after we prayed for months.

I can't explain why these things happen, but I have chosen to believe God is what Jesus said He is, and I have chosen to go this direction with my life in Christ, because I believe we have a better chance of receiving from God when we believe.

Like Jesus said, "only believe"

If a person has been taught that God only heals when He decides to, then we can never have the faith to receive, like James said in 5:15.

In Nazareth, Jesus, God in the flesh was deterred from much works because of their lack of faith, they thought He was just a carpenter's son. All faith is, is believing what God says is true.

Jesus was so eager to heal in the four Gospels, why would He be any less eager to heal us now? Fact is, He already has, as Matthew said, taken our infirmities, and carried away our diseases.

Blessings of God to You

1. This is a hedonistic view. Your desire (for health, in this case) is the ultimate goal, and you've derived that "belief" will achieve your goal the best. It's selfish at it's heart.

2. This places the responsibility on the individual, rather than on God. It makes God dependent upon the person's faith (or lack thereof) before He can respond.

3. This neglects various instances in scripture when people (or their loved ones) were healed in spite of their "little faith" (see Mark 9 for example where a father admitted faith along with doubt).

4. This also disregards the fact that Scripture teaches "little faith" can accomplish great things (see Matthew 17:20).

5. We are taught in Scripture that faith comes from God, not ourselves. If faith is the culprit when we aren't healed, the ultimate blame must lie with God...as it originates from Him alone.

6. Even if we are to accept that increased faith is the only faith rewarded with healing, this would also contradict various other verses (including James 1:2-4) where we are taught that faith grows through trials. If faith grows through trials (as Scripture teaches), then this would explain why very often it's those who don't receive a healing who have such tremendous faith....as they have had to cling to God even more through their pain and suffering.

7. You reference James but neglect that he also refers to Job (in the verses prior to the one you mentioned) as a man of patience who endured through suffering.

In summary, your view of healing is quite skewed, unbiblical, and shows a great misunderstanding of faith, trust, and most importantly....grace. And again, why the obssession with physical healing? Why do you abandon topics you've started on the same issue, only to start new one's later? Is it because you are challenged and corrected, but rather than receiving correction...you just ignore it for a while then come back with the same old misinterpretations? Please just stick to one topic on the same issue. If you believe in it so strongly, show us your knowledgeable enough about it to withstand the challenges of those who disagree by sticking with it and responding to the challenges put forth. As shiloh mentioned, you need to learn to rightly divide the Word. Anytime the "faith healing" believers come around posting this stuff, I've yet to see anyone of you use scripture correctly or respond to challenges of your "interpretations". If it's so important that you think it's necessary to start repeated topics about it, then defend it.

[ayin jade]

Was Jesus so eager to heal?

Mat 9:2 And behold, they brought to Him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And Jesus, seeing their faith, said to the paralytic, Child, be of good cheer. Your sins are forgiven you.

Mat 9:3 And lo, some of the scribes said within themselves, This one blasphemes.

Mat 9:4 And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, Why do you think evil in your hearts?

Mat 9:5 For which is easier? To say, Your sins are forgiven you, or to say, Arise and walk!

Mat 9:6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins, then He said to the paralytic, Arise, take up your bed and go to your house.

Mat 9:7 And he arose and departed to his house.

Mat 9:8 But when the crowds saw, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

That passage indicates He desired to forgive the man his sins, not heal. The healing only came when the scribes mumbled about blasphemy. Jesus then healed the man as proof of His ability to forgive sins. If Jesus was only interested in healing, why wouldnt He have healed the man first, then forgiven the man his sins?

[Marnie]

Wow, this topic sure draws fire. I am dispensationalist as well, and I also believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today, including the gift of healing. I think it's really very simple, actually. I believe it is G-d's will that we all be perfectly whole, but we also live in a fallen world and are therefore subject to germs, sickness and disease. Our bodies age, they decay and fall apart. Sometimes, G-d intervenes in the affairs of man in a miraculous way and we see people healed. I am an example of this. Other times the Lord heals through doctors and medicine, I am also an example of that. No man is capable of healing another man; only G-d can do that. The problem, from a new believer's perspective is this: You "word of faith" people, sincere as you may be, have a bad habit of taking verses (or promises) about healing in the next life and applying them to right now. Or you take verses referring to the healing of the soul and spirit and applying to the healing of the body also. As I read Paul's writing I see where our bodies are redeemed and will be raised incorruptable. But they are corruptable right now and will remain so.

The other, more disturbing trend I see among believers is this urge to cling to this life for all its worth. I mean, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, no? So why the urgency NOT to die? I am not saying I am looking forward to process of dying, but I have to say, if I had to choose between staying in this life or entering the next, there is no real choice. I cannot wait to receve my glorified body...no more aches and pains, no crow's feet or scars. Man, what could be better that? But I have to be patient and trust that it will come to pass in His good time. Sometimes I have pain in y body that is almost unendureable, and it is during those times I sense His presence in my life like never before. I do not praise G-d for my ailments, but I do praise Him that when I feel like I am going out of my mind with the pain, He comes and gives to me strength; His strength. And during the good days, I praise Him for those, too, for it is a reminder of how it can be and will be someday.

Paul had his phycial problem, whatever it may be, and he was the great preacher of faith. I have no war with those who believe in divine healing--for I also believe that. But you do great harm to your arguement and a disservice to the Faith when you play fast and loose with the Bible. A text without a context is just a pretext. (I didn't make that up, my pastor uses it all the time, usually to correct me.)

[Franky67]

The miracles you read of in scripture were signs to confirm the person delivering the message. When the Canon was complete, the miracles (sign gifts) were no longer necessary.

Check out Mark 16.15-20, Acts 4.29, 30

You will read that signs were given to confirm the word, not the preacher of the word.

Jesus said that the works He did proved that He was sent by his Father, but those after Him had their words confirmed by the signs which followed.

Why, if the miracles were no longer necessary would Jesus tell His followers that believed, would heal the sick , clense the lepers, etc, are we believers, if so, we are told we have the authority in Jesus' name to do these things which confirm the word. By the power of the Holy Spirit.

Some teach the gifts were no longer needed, the Bible does not teach that.

The "perfect" is Jesus, not the canon.

1Cor. 13.8 says tongues, and knowledge would cease when the perfect has come, well the canon has come, and we still have prophesy, tongues, and we still need knowledge.

All this is my opinion of what the bible teaches.

[Razberry]

Okay, I'm confused. Apparently this has been the subject of a bit of contention on a few threads, but this is the first thread I've read concerning Franky's healing belief, and I'm not getting the gist of it. Sorry.

I'm a 45 year old woman that's dealt with health problems for almost 21 years. I was hit head-on by a drugged up teenager when I was 25 years old and sustained life-threatening injuries. I made the mistake of bracing myself when I saw we were going to be hit. My thigh bone crushed backward thru my pelvis with such force the entire seat of my jeans ripped out, which a surgeon repaired to the best of his ability 11 days after the accident in an 8 hour surgury (repaired my hip, not my jeans ). My foot was crushed and mangled (so badly the joints were surgically removed from my toes), my leg was broken, concussion, etc. I went thru surguries, months flat on my back, months in a wheelchair, crutches, limping, on and on. The accident left me with many deficits and deformities. After nearly two years recouperating, I was well enough to get back to work though, thank God.

Fifteen months ago, I had a total hip replacement. Arthritis finally caught up with me. I thought this would be a good thing. It turned out not to be. I now have severe nerve damage which has left me with no control to lift my crippled foot at the ankle, or to lift my toes in an upward movement. This makes walking very, very difficult. Not to mention, the new nerve pain is constant and at times torturous. Healthy is the last thing I am.

Do I believe God can heal me? Absolutely! Not a doubt in my mind. Will He? I have no idea. If it's part of His plan, He will. If I'm meant to go thru this pain and being handicapped for the duration of my life, God has a reason for it. Whatever that reason is, I guarantee it will bring me and/or others closer to Him and doing His will. I hope He heals me, but if He doesn't I'll still love and trust Him. My life belongs to Him, for His glory.

So--what does my bad health, or anyone's, have to do with anything? I'm missing the overall 'subject' here, I know. What exactly is the disagreement?

Edited April 5, 2006 by Razberry

[Franky67]

Was Jesus so eager to heal?

Mat 9:2 And behold, they brought to Him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And Jesus, seeing their faith, said to the paralytic, Child, be of good cheer. Your sins are forgiven you.

Mat 9:3 And lo, some of the scribes said within themselves, This one blasphemes.

Mat 9:4 And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, Why do you think evil in your hearts?

Mat 9:5 For which is easier? To say, Your sins are forgiven you, or to say, Arise and walk!

Mat 9:6 But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins, then He said to the paralytic, Arise, take up your bed and go to your house.

Mat 9:7 And he arose and departed to his house.

Mat 9:8 But when the crowds saw, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

That passage indicates He desired to forgive the man his sins, not heal. The healing only came when the scribes mumbled about blasphemy. Jesus then healed the man as proof of His ability to forgive sins. If Jesus was only interested in healing, why wouldnt He have healed the man first, then forgiven the man his sins?

ayan jade,

I guess, for the sake of argument, you have taken a stance regarding Jesus' healing that Is unbelievable.

Are you really saying you believe Jesus was reluctant to heal those who asked to be healed?

Matthew 9.2-8 was a special occurance where Jesus equated the forgiveness of sin with healing as being both within His power to bring about.

MANY other cases where Jesus healed, He did it very willingly.

When the Centurion came to Him about his sick servant, Jesus was ready and willing to go to his house and heal the man.

The leper said "Lord if your are willing, you can make me clean,"

Jesus said, "I am willing, be clean"

Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law, Peter didn't beg Him to heal her, Jesus healed her without hesitation.

[Franky67]

Okay, I'm confused. Apparently this has been the subject of a bit of contention on a few threads, but this is the first thread I've read concerning Franky's healing belief, and I'm not getting the gist of it. Sorry.

I'm a 45 year old woman that's dealt with health problems for almost 21 years. I was hit head-on by a drugged up teenager when I was 25 years old and sustained life-threatening injuries. I made the mistake of bracing myself when I saw we were going to be hit. My thigh bone crushed backward thru my pelvis with such force the entire seat of my jeans ripped out, which a surgeon repaired to the best of his ability 11 days after the accident in an 8 hour surgury (repaired my hip, not my jeans ). My foot was crushed and mangled (so badly the joints were surgically removed from my toes), my leg was broken, concussion, etc. I went thru surguries, months flat on my back, months in a wheelchair, crutches, limping, on and on. The accident left me with many deficits and deformities. After nearly two years recouperating, I was well enough to get back to work though, thank God.

Fifteen months ago, I had a total hip replacement. Arthritis finally caught up with me. I thought this would be a good thing. It turned out not to be. I now have severe nerve damage which has left me with no control to lift my crippled foot at the ankle, or to lift my toes in an upward movement. This makes walking very, very difficult. Not to mention, the new nerve pain is constant and at times torturous. Healthy is the last thing I am.

Do I believe God can heal me? Absolutely! Not a doubt in my mind. Will He? I have no idea. If it's part of His plan, He will. If I'm meant to go thru this pain and being handicapped for the duration of my life, God has a reason for it. Whatever that reason is, I guarantee it will bring me and/or others closer to Him and doing His will. I hope He heals me, but if He doesn't I'll still love and trust Him. My life belongs to Him, for His glory.

So--what does my bad health, or anyone's, have to do with anything? I'm missing the overall 'subject' here, I know. What exactly is the disagreement?

Dear rasberry,

Looking at my post #1 you will see that I brought up the fact that Matthew in chapter 8, verse 16 and 17, said after listing many healings that Jesus did shortly after preaching the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew stated that the prophesy of Isaiah in the Old Testament had come to pass.

Then Matthew said "He, Himself took our infirmities, and carried away our deseases."

Since Matthew wrote this in the year 50 to 70 AD, he was stating that Jesus bore our sickness and diseases at Calvary.

Since Jesus redeemed us from sickness and disease as well as sin, we can ask for healing just as we ask for salvation with the assurrance that He has already accomplished it. We just have to receive it.

The disagreement is that some say God has not promised health to everyone.

But most people will agree that God has promised salvation to everyone.

We have to receive salvation by faith, and it's the same with healing, we have to receive it with faitth.

How many times did Jesus say to the healed ones, "your faith has made you whole " ?

Matthew 18.19

"Again I say to you that if two or three of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in Heaven."

I just believe what Jesus has spoken to us is truth.

May God Bless you

Edited April 5, 2006 by Franky67