Illegal Immigration -- Disturbing Site

[Biscuit]

I found another great site:

http://www.saveourstate.org/

Be sure to check out the forums..... a LOT of people there. Maybe folks are finally waking up about this. God bless.

James

[apothanein kerdos]

I found another great site:

http://www.saveourstate.org/

Be sure to check out the forums..... a LOT of people there. Maybe folks are finally waking up about this. God bless.

James

This site is racist and should be removed. When it refers to "mexi-fornia" as a cesspool and "proves" this fact by showing signs made in spanish for people. So, people who speak Spanish are nothing more than a "cesspool?" I think the originators of the site forget that California, for the majority of its history since settlement, has had a majority Spanish speaking population...

I'd like to remind all of you about what Christianity is....it seems we've forgotten Christ in this law. We promote the name of God when trying to ban homosexuality, but when it comes to helping our neighbours we ask Christ to be the gentleman and step aside.

[Biscuit]

I found another great site:

http://www.saveourstate.org/

Be sure to check out the forums..... a LOT of people there. Maybe folks are finally waking up about this. God bless.

James

This site is racist and should be removed. When it refers to "mexi-fornia" as a cesspool and "proves" this fact by showing signs made in spanish for people. So, people who speak Spanish are nothing more than a "cesspool?" I think the originators of the site forget that California, for the majority of its history since settlement, has had a majority Spanish speaking population...

I'd like to remind all of you about what Christianity is....it seems we've forgotten Christ in this law. We promote the name of God when trying to ban homosexuality, but when it comes to helping our neighbours we ask Christ to be the gentleman and step aside.

If you are offended by this, then you have a very sensitive spirit. This is not nearly as offensive as the very first site in this thread that I shared (that the moderator removed) in which illegal aliens were using profanity, profane gestures, holding obscene signs, and were telling "white people" to go back to Europe. And speaking badly of the founding fathers. Is this not racist? During the original protests, why were the protestors here in the U.S. holding Mexican flags rather than the flag of the U.S.? Which country do they have allegiance to?? You turn this into a "racist" thing, when it is about illegal versus legal. I personally have no problem with legal immigrants and more than welcome them. I just bought land in Greenville,TX, and plan to move there soon. Two of my adjoining neighbors are of Mexican descent. I have no problem with that and hope that my son can one day do things with their kids. We have even bought some books and hope to learn Spanish. But you cannot justify simply overlooking a law and doing as you please. If we all overlook or ignore laws, then our country would be in chaos. People could walk up in Walmart and walk out with a couple of TVs because it is now OK to steal. Rather than love your neighbor, you could now shoot your neighbor if he offends you, because laws are no longer of any significance. I don't think anyone on WB would have a problem with Mexicans coming into the United States as long as they follow legal channels as all legal immigrants have. If you feel this law is racist, then you are free to contact your legislators to get this law changed or abolished. By your reference to homosexuality, I am not sure if you are for or against this sin (that the Bible clearly speaks against). I understand your point, but can we pick and choose which laws we will obey? Take care and God bless.

Edited April 16, 2006 by Biscuit

[Guest LadyC]

i'm with you, biscuit. this isn't about racism, it's about upholding the rule of law.

by the way, just a question of perhaps little significance, but if america has no "official language", then why is it a federeal requirement for all people applying for citizenship to be able to speak, read and write english?

[Biscuit]

i'm with you, biscuit. this isn't about racism, it's about upholding the rule of law.

That's a good point about English being a requirement. I was not aware of that. However, I don't think it is being enforced.

Apothanein kerdos mentioned Jesus and I do see his point. But Jesus never seemed overly concerned about changing Roman law. I don't think He was too concerned about the things of this world. And maybe I am overly concerned about this. If Jesus had been questioned about a certain law, His answer might have been "Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is Gods". I don't know.

I recently got a ticket in Texas for not wearing a seatbelt. It was $130. I think I should be able to make my own decision about whether or not I want to wear a seat belt. But I paid it since it is a law.

If I were racist against Mexicans, I certainly would not be moving from Mississippi to Texas.

Europe is going thru something similar now with Muslims coming into the country. I don't know the laws there or if the Muslims are coming in legally or not. And something to consider when looking at man's law is whether or not it violates God's law. There will come a point (i.e. mark of the beast) when I will no longer follow man's law. This is a complex issue. Like I said, I welcome the immigrants as long as they obey the law, as immigrants have done here for at least a couple of centuries.

Edited April 16, 2006 by Biscuit

[Guest LadyC]

biscuit, i don't think any of us here can legitimately stand accused of racism, because all of us have stated that we support LEGAL immigration.

the learning english to obtain citizenship is something i've mentioned a number of times in threads on this subject, and yet i still hear the same old "english is not the official language" hype over and over and over. i don't know what it takes for a language to be considered "official", but since knowing it fluently is a requirement for citizenship, that sounds like a pretty official policy to me.

my husband's previous employer was asian. she became a naturalized citizen about 2.5 years ago. it was a big deal, not only to her, but to everyone who worked for her. they were all very happy for her, and she'd been in the process of becoming a citizen for a number of years. so at least up until two years ago, it was still being enforced that anyone wishing to become a citizen was required to speak, read, and write english.

there are very few exceptions to that rule. the english requirement may be waived if certain other criteria are met, such as being married to an american citizen (natural or naturalized).

as for what Jesus would say, i believe He would hold true to scripture and say that we are to obey the laws of the land where they do not directly conflict with the laws of God.

[apothanein kerdos]

I'm getting tired of the whole, "This isn't about racism" argument. That's absurd because it is about racism. No one wants to put a wall on the Canada/US border...wonder why.

If you are offended by this, then you have a very sensitive spirit.

I'm over sensitive because it compares Spanish speaking people to a cesspool? I'm being sensitive because it's upset that billboards in LOS ANGELES and SAN FRANCISCO, and SAN DIEGO are written in Spanish, even though the majority have almost always spoken in Spanish? No, I'm not sensitive at all; it's call I know I have a brain and I choose to use it, unlike the creaters of that site.

This is not nearly as offensive as the very first site in this thread that I shared (that the moderator removed) in which illegal aliens were using profanity, profane gestures, holding obscene signs, and were telling "white people" to go back to Europe. And speaking badly of the founding fathers. Is this not racist?

So what? If I were them I'd be pretty upset as well. For one, you are assuming they were illegal. You see a brown coloured person and automatically think they are illegal. Yeah, not about racism at all. Secondly, they have every right to tell us to go back to Europe...we did take over their country after all. You forget that California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas all belonged to Mexico at one point. We took them back because illegal immigrants from America migrated over there, led revolutions, and the US Army came in to help them. We're only getting in return what we did to them. Why not apologize to begin with, then work from there?

As for the founding fathers...they weren't great men. What they did was great, but when it comes to moral integrity, it's an empty bunch.

During the original protests, why were the protestors here in the U.S. holding Mexican flags rather than the flag of the U.S.? Which country do they have allegiance to??

This is a racist observation. How? Do you get offended during a St. Patrick's Day Parade and people are flying the Irish flag? Of course not...why? Because they're white.

You turn this into a "racist" thing, when it is about illegal versus legal.

The only reason there is such thing as illegal is because of racism. Study the immigration history...though we need immigration laws, most of the ones have been based on racism towards a certain people.

But you cannot justify simply overlooking a law and doing as you please. If we all overlook or ignore laws, then our country would be in chaos. People could walk up in Walmart and walk out with a couple of TVs because it is now OK to steal. Rather than love your neighbor, you could now shoot your neighbor if he offends you, because laws are no longer of any significance. I don't think anyone on WB would have a problem with Mexicans coming into the United States as long as they follow legal channels as all legal immigrants have.

This is an absurd statement. By your logic, Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, the underground railroad, etc., were all wrong for violating the law. The Founding Fathers that you upheld earlier violated the laws as well when they threw tea into the port of Boston. Some laws, when they are based on immoral concepts, MUST be broken. Laws that segregate a race or ethnic group in any way should be broken in a civil manner. Most "illegals" are here for a better life, that's all. That shouldn't be denied to them because a cap limit has already been reached, they're too poor, undereducated, or can't speak English. Have you looked over naturalization laws? If you are a poor person from Mexico, you will never become a citizen:

1) a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States

If you are poor and from Mexico you can't apply for a work visa because most businesses here can't hire you. How do you let them know you exist unless you come across the border and let them know? Around 60% of Mexicans would be unable to fulfill this requirement.

2) residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing

This too is an impossibility for the above reasons.

3) an ability to read, write, and speak English;

How can a poor Mexican afford English lessons? This law is wonderful IF it offered a way for immigrants applying for citizenship to take these classes for free during the naturalization process.

4) a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;

How is someone who survives on less than 40 pesos a day (about $5 after adjusting for currency exchange and infalation) going to have a knowledge of this when they could not afford school?

5) good moral character;

6) attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,

7) favorable disposition toward the United States.

Now these can be fulfilled.

The problem is, of the 7 requirements, poor Mexicans (the ones who need to get out of there the most) can only fufill 3 of them.

The status quo is elitist and racist against poor immigrants....if you are from a 3rd world country and live in third world conditions, you will never become a citizen here.

If you feel this law is racist, then you are free to contact your legislators to get this law changed or abolished.

I have, multiple times. I am also getting started on some possible protest rallies...peaceful demonstrations for better immigration laws.

By your reference to homosexuality, I am not sure if you are for or against this sin (that the Bible clearly speaks against

I bring it up because most Christians are republicans first and Christians second. In other words, when it comes to homosexuality, we can point to the Bible to justify our stance against it. This isn't wrong, homosexuality is a sin and it should not be allowed as a legitimate practice. At the same time, most Christians never apply this same standard to anything else. We fight homosexuality and abortion using the Bible, but then take anti-biblical stances. Take this for example...the only biblical stance you have against illegal immigrants is that they are violating immigration laws. So let's apply these immigration laws to the Bible....and we find that it actually contradicts the Bible. The Hebrew idea of Justice is not giving people what they deserve; justice in the Bible is heping the poor and alienated in any way we can. When our immigration laws make it impossible for poor people to become citizens those laws have violated the Biblical principle of justice. Yet most Christians uphold the status quo even though those laws are against the Bible. It's inconsistent. Christianity needs to leave the politicing alone and if we are going to be involved in politics then we need to be consistent. If we can't do that, then we need to shut up.

I understand your point, but can we pick and choose which laws we will obey?

If it vioaltes biblical principles, I'll violate that law.

[Gerioke]

I'm getting tired of the whole, "This isn't about racism" argument. That's absurd because it is about racism. No one wants to put a wall on the Canada/US border...wonder why.

If you are offended by this, then you have a very sensitive spirit.

I'm over sensitive because it compares Spanish speaking people to a cesspool? I'm being sensitive because it's upset that billboards in LOS ANGELES and SAN FRANCISCO, and SAN DIEGO are written in Spanish, even though the majority have almost always spoken in Spanish? No, I'm not sensitive at all; it's call I know I have a brain and I choose to use it, unlike the creaters of that site.

This is not nearly as offensive as the very first site in this thread that I shared (that the moderator removed) in which illegal aliens were using profanity, profane gestures, holding obscene signs, and were telling "white people" to go back to Europe. And speaking badly of the founding fathers. Is this not racist?

So what? If I were them I'd be pretty upset as well. For one, you are assuming they were illegal. You see a brown coloured person and automatically think they are illegal. Yeah, not about racism at all. Secondly, they have every right to tell us to go back to Europe...we did take over their country after all. You forget that California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas all belonged to Mexico at one point. We took them back because illegal immigrants from America migrated over there, led revolutions, and the US Army came in to help them. We're only getting in return what we did to them. Why not apologize to begin with, then work from there?

As for the founding fathers...they weren't great men. What they did was great, but when it comes to moral integrity, it's an empty bunch.

During the original protests, why were the protestors here in the U.S. holding Mexican flags rather than the flag of the U.S.? Which country do they have allegiance to??

This is a racist observation. How? Do you get offended during a St. Patrick's Day Parade and people are flying the Irish flag? Of course not...why? Because they're white.

You turn this into a "racist" thing, when it is about illegal versus legal.

The only reason there is such thing as illegal is because of racism. Study the immigration history...though we need immigration laws, most of the ones have been based on racism towards a certain people.

But you cannot justify simply overlooking a law and doing as you please. If we all overlook or ignore laws, then our country would be in chaos. People could walk up in Walmart and walk out with a couple of TVs because it is now OK to steal. Rather than love your neighbor, you could now shoot your neighbor if he offends you, because laws are no longer of any significance. I don't think anyone on WB would have a problem with Mexicans coming into the United States as long as they follow legal channels as all legal immigrants have.

This is an absurd statement. By your logic, Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, the underground railroad, etc., were all wrong for violating the law. The Founding Fathers that you upheld earlier violated the laws as well when they threw tea into the port of Boston. Some laws, when they are based on immoral concepts, MUST be broken. Laws that segregate a race or ethnic group in any way should be broken in a civil manner. Most "illegals" are here for a better life, that's all. That shouldn't be denied to them because a cap limit has already been reached, they're too poor, undereducated, or can't speak English. Have you looked over naturalization laws? If you are a poor person from Mexico, you will never become a citizen:

1) a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States

If you are poor and from Mexico you can't apply for a work visa because most businesses here can't hire you. How do you let them know you exist unless you come across the border and let them know? Around 60% of Mexicans would be unable to fulfill this requirement.

2) residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing

This too is an impossibility for the above reasons.

3) an ability to read, write, and speak English;

How can a poor Mexican afford English lessons? This law is wonderful IF it offered a way for immigrants applying for citizenship to take these classes for free during the naturalization process.

4) a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;

How is someone who survives on less than 40 pesos a day (about $5 after adjusting for currency exchange and infalation) going to have a knowledge of this when they could not afford school?

5) good moral character;

6) attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,

7) favorable disposition toward the United States.

Now these can be fulfilled.

The problem is, of the 7 requirements, poor Mexicans (the ones who need to get out of there the most) can only fufill 3 of them.

The status quo is elitist and racist against poor immigrants....if you are from a 3rd world country and live in third world conditions, you will never become a citizen here.

If you feel this law is racist, then you are free to contact your legislators to get this law changed or abolished.

I have, multiple times. I am also getting started on some possible protest rallies...peaceful demonstrations for better immigration laws.

By your reference to homosexuality, I am not sure if you are for or against this sin (that the Bible clearly speaks against

I bring it up because most Christians are republicans first and Christians second. In other words, when it comes to homosexuality, we can point to the Bible to justify our stance against it. This isn't wrong, homosexuality is a sin and it should not be allowed as a legitimate practice. At the same time, most Christians never apply this same standard to anything else. We fight homosexuality and abortion using the Bible, but then take anti-biblical stances. Take this for example...the only biblical stance you have against illegal immigrants is that they are violating immigration laws. So let's apply these immigration laws to the Bible....and we find that it actually contradicts the Bible. The Hebrew idea of Justice is not giving people what they deserve; justice in the Bible is heping the poor and alienated in any way we can. When our immigration laws make it impossible for poor people to become citizens those laws have violated the Biblical principle of justice. Yet most Christians uphold the status quo even though those laws are against the Bible. It's inconsistent. Christianity needs to leave the politicing alone and if we are going to be involved in politics then we need to be consistent. If we can't do that, then we need to shut up.

I understand your point, but can we pick and choose which laws we will obey?

If it vioaltes biblical principles, I'll violate that law.

Right on

[Kabowd]

I'm getting tired of the whole, "This isn't about racism" argument. That's absurd because it is about racism. No one wants to put a wall on the Canada/US border...wonder why.

If you are offended by this, then you have a very sensitive spirit.

I'm over sensitive because it compares Spanish speaking people to a cesspool? I'm being sensitive because it's upset that billboards in LOS ANGELES and SAN FRANCISCO, and SAN DIEGO are written in Spanish, even though the majority have almost always spoken in Spanish? No, I'm not sensitive at all; it's call I know I have a brain and I choose to use it, unlike the creaters of that site.

This is not nearly as offensive as the very first site in this thread that I shared (that the moderator removed) in which illegal aliens were using profanity, profane gestures, holding obscene signs, and were telling "white people" to go back to Europe. And speaking badly of the founding fathers. Is this not racist?

So what? If I were them I'd be pretty upset as well. For one, you are assuming they were illegal. You see a brown coloured person and automatically think they are illegal. Yeah, not about racism at all. Secondly, they have every right to tell us to go back to Europe...we did take over their country after all. You forget that California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas all belonged to Mexico at one point. We took them back because illegal immigrants from America migrated over there, led revolutions, and the US Army came in to help them. We're only getting in return what we did to them. Why not apologize to begin with, then work from there?

As for the founding fathers...they weren't great men. What they did was great, but when it comes to moral integrity, it's an empty bunch.

During the original protests, why were the protestors here in the U.S. holding Mexican flags rather than the flag of the U.S.? Which country do they have allegiance to??

This is a racist observation. How? Do you get offended during a St. Patrick's Day Parade and people are flying the Irish flag? Of course not...why? Because they're white.

You turn this into a "racist" thing, when it is about illegal versus legal.

The only reason there is such thing as illegal is because of racism. Study the immigration history...though we need immigration laws, most of the ones have been based on racism towards a certain people.

But you cannot justify simply overlooking a law and doing as you please. If we all overlook or ignore laws, then our country would be in chaos. People could walk up in Walmart and walk out with a couple of TVs because it is now OK to steal. Rather than love your neighbor, you could now shoot your neighbor if he offends you, because laws are no longer of any significance. I don't think anyone on WB would have a problem with Mexicans coming into the United States as long as they follow legal channels as all legal immigrants have.

This is an absurd statement. By your logic, Martin Luther King Jr., Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, the underground railroad, etc., were all wrong for violating the law. The Founding Fathers that you upheld earlier violated the laws as well when they threw tea into the port of Boston. Some laws, when they are based on immoral concepts, MUST be broken. Laws that segregate a race or ethnic group in any way should be broken in a civil manner. Most "illegals" are here for a better life, that's all. That shouldn't be denied to them because a cap limit has already been reached, they're too poor, undereducated, or can't speak English. Have you looked over naturalization laws? If you are a poor person from Mexico, you will never become a citizen:

1) a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States

If you are poor and from Mexico you can't apply for a work visa because most businesses here can't hire you. How do you let them know you exist unless you come across the border and let them know? Around 60% of Mexicans would be unable to fulfill this requirement.

2) residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing

This too is an impossibility for the above reasons.

3) an ability to read, write, and speak English;

How can a poor Mexican afford English lessons? This law is wonderful IF it offered a way for immigrants applying for citizenship to take these classes for free during the naturalization process.

4) a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;

How is someone who survives on less than 40 pesos a day (about $5 after adjusting for currency exchange and infalation) going to have a knowledge of this when they could not afford school?

5) good moral character;

6) attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,

7) favorable disposition toward the United States.

Now these can be fulfilled.

The problem is, of the 7 requirements, poor Mexicans (the ones who need to get out of there the most) can only fufill 3 of them.

The status quo is elitist and racist against poor immigrants....if you are from a 3rd world country and live in third world conditions, you will never become a citizen here.

If you feel this law is racist, then you are free to contact your legislators to get this law changed or abolished.

I have, multiple times. I am also getting started on some possible protest rallies...peaceful demonstrations for better immigration laws.

By your reference to homosexuality, I am not sure if you are for or against this sin (that the Bible clearly speaks against

I bring it up because most Christians are republicans first and Christians second. In other words, when it comes to homosexuality, we can point to the Bible to justify our stance against it. This isn't wrong, homosexuality is a sin and it should not be allowed as a legitimate practice. At the same time, most Christians never apply this same standard to anything else. We fight homosexuality and abortion using the Bible, but then take anti-biblical stances. Take this for example...the only biblical stance you have against illegal immigrants is that they are violating immigration laws. So let's apply these immigration laws to the Bible....and we find that it actually contradicts the Bible. The Hebrew idea of Justice is not giving people what they deserve; justice in the Bible is heping the poor and alienated in any way we can. When our immigration laws make it impossible for poor people to become citizens those laws have violated the Biblical principle of justice. Yet most Christians uphold the status quo even though those laws are against the Bible. It's inconsistent. Christianity needs to leave the politicing alone and if we are going to be involved in politics then we need to be consistent. If we can't do that, then we need to shut up.

I understand your point, but can we pick and choose which laws we will obey?

If it vioaltes biblical principles, I'll violate that law.

Absolutely amazing post!

[apothanein kerdos]

Thanks to both Gerioke and Tess.....unless Leonard comes in here I think you are the only two that will actually support what I'm saying.