Why did Paul make vows in the book of Acts??

[Guest yod]

oh boy....

Nana...are you interested in knowing what the Bible says or do you only accept what you want it say?

[nanasimmons]

Yod, I could ask you the same question..

357,

I keep hearing you say "extrabiblical jewish prohibitions"The scriptures don't mention any such terms. Remember Paul is writing to us foolish gentile believers. You would think he'd s-p-e-l-l

it out better for us. Here a secret (God knew that uneducated In judism,people would be reading His Bible.)

All I can say is when I think of how hopeless and dark my life would be if I were to believe that your interpetations were true,even your mediator Moses was told that there was one law for all.

(and The strangers among you) I guess I'll just have to reject the Righteousness of Christ and reject his robe,and wear the same ratty,filthy,holely robe of selfrighteousness as the rest of ya.

Then if and only if I get a stain I'll come running to Christ for a new patch to put on my old robe.If you break one law,you've broke them all right? Wow, and the labor begins,work , work ,work.Boy I hope I can keep up..

There now the we've taken all the Glory from Christ and what He has done. What do we do now??

[Guest shiloh357]

357,

I keep hearing you say "extrabiblical jewish prohibitions"The scriptures don't mention any such terms. Remember Paul is writing to us foolish gentile believers. You would think he'd s-p-e-l-l

it out better for us. Here a secret (God knew that uneducated In judism,people would be reading His Bible.)

God also expects you to study, Nana. The Bible does not spell everything out. You are not spoon fed everything. There is a lot of history and culture that plays into much of what the Bible says. God did not circumvent the culture and events that were contemporary with times in which the Bible was originally penned. The historical/cultural context cannot be divorced from the Bible just because you are too lazy to study it. The Bible is a book in history written to a people in history. There are some things that people living in the first century would have understood that fly under our radar, because of the historical/cultural vacuum that exists. That vacuum is filled by thoughtful and careful study of the Scriptures which we are commanded to do. So, being uneducated in Judaism is not an excuse. There are many scholars and many Christians who take the time learn about the life and times of the people of the Bible to better understand how times and events contemporary with the Bible flavored what is actually discussed in the text. There is no place for laziness and lack of intellectual ambition where the study of Scripture is concerned. Studying the Bible is just as much an intellectual endeavor as a spiritual one.

When you study the Bible properly it is easy to see when the Bible is addressing the Torah, and when it is addressing Jewish tradition. Person willing to study the Bible thougtfully and intelligently will see the difference and be intellectually honest enough to make the necessary moral distinction. Apparently, you refuse to demonstrate that kind of integrity.

All I can say is when I think of how hopeless and dark my life would be if I were to believe that your interpetations were true,even your mediator Moses was told that there was one law for all.

Again, this is just an emotional rant with no well reasoned response to anything I have said. You cannot show me where I am wrong hermeneutically by taking ANYTHING I have said regarding the Scriptures. You simply reject them out of hand in a knee jerk emotional moment. You have presented nothing that is well thought out, or intelligently composed just a bunch of whining about me being wrong, but no demonstration of why.

I guess I'll just have to reject the Righteousness of Christ and reject his robe,and wear the same ratty,filthy,holely robe of selfrighteousness as the rest of ya.

Then if and only if I get a stain I'll come running to Christ for a new patch to put on my old robe.If you break one law,you've broke them all right? Wow, and the labor begins,work , work ,work.Boy I hope I can keep up..

Again, just more emotional ranting. You are confusing issues altogether. You don't understand the law, you don't even understand Paul. You fail to recognize how Paul was completely Torah observant. Guess what???? Paul was a law keeper. You would be really uncomfortable with Paul. Paul stayed kosher, kept the Sabbath, oberserved the Festivals, performed sacrifices, circumcized Timothy, and stated at his trial that he at no time did anything contrary to the Law of Moses. You must have a very diminished view of Paul.

[nanasimmons]

First of all I get a history lesson on "extrabiblical" jewish things every day.

And I study the Bible and I have a personal relationship with Christ. I have Holy Spirit living in me testifing when I read about Christs Righteuosness. I store my treasures in heaven,but I'm sure some of what I've done will be burned up because they were done of myself. I am in the world but not of the world ,Christ promises are not the same as the ones that Torah keeping are.

Obeying Jesus and keeping Tanakh/Torah are not the same to me,are they to you?

It is all Him and Zero us, anything than takes away from Him and what He has done is Vanity.May you are just to close to see it .

I have read the Bible from frount to back twice and probibly twice that by now. I feel personaly I would be trampling on the blood if I were to allow myself to be brought under the bonage of the law and the curse that comes with . A gift is no longer a gift when you work for it.

If the law could have been kept by any one besides God himself righteousness would have been by the law.

Even if I am right about what the new testament is teaching you have been filled with wisdom and philosophies of this world.Your mind has been trained to read the scriptutes in a way that only line up with what you have been taught.

Isn't funny how I'm aways calling you to wise, and your always questioning my intelligents altogether.

I know how hard it can be to trust or rest in God/Jesus but maybe in time.

Hebrews 4;1-3

Let us therefore fear, lest,a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto unto us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard. For we which have believed do enter into His rest,as He said,"As I have sworn in my wrath,if they shall enter into my rest": although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

I can't help mentioning: I almost died yesterday when that idol was sitting in the middle of our temple..I have never seen a post get so much attention so fast..

[Guest shiloh357]

First of all I get a history lesson on "extrabiblical" jewish things every day.

Really?? Wouldn't know it from

the substance, or lack thereof, in your posts. You show a great deal of ignorance on the issue, and what is worse, when someone who knows about these things points them out to you, you balk at it, and take on an indignant attitude.

And I study the Bible and I have a personal relationship with Christ. I have Holy Spirit living in me testifing when I read about Christs Righteuosness. I store my treasures in heaven,but I'm sure some of what I've done will be burned up because they were done of myself. I am in the world but not of the world ,Christ promises are not the same as the ones that Torah keeping are.

Obeying Jesus and keeping Tanakh/Torah are not the same to me,are they to you?

It is all Him and Zero us, anything than takes away from Him and what He has done is Vanity.May you are just to close to see it .

I have read the Bible from frount to back twice and probibly twice that by now. I feel personaly I would be trampling on the blood if I were to allow myself to be brought under the bonage of the law and the curse that comes with . A gift is no longer a gift when you work for it.

If the law could have been kept by any one besides God himself righteousness would have been by the law.

When have I said you should keep the law as a Jew??? Please cut and paste one place where I have ever said that Christians must/should live like Jews!!! Guess what???? You can't, because I have never made that assertion.

Herein lies your problem Nana, instead of reading my posts you have been going on the silly emotional rants and foaming at the mouth about keeping the law and that has not at all been the issue I raised with you. I have never made the assertion in this thread or any other that keeping the law is necessary for salvation, or that we are required to live as Jews.

If you had the integrity and decency to reread my posts, you would notice that I have never said that you were wrong regarding Christians not being required to keep the Sabbath, or the dietary commandments, and so forth. The ONLY point I have been making is that you are using the wrong Scriptures to make your point. I never said that your point was wrong, but that you are trying to make your point, the wrong way. There is a better way.

Instead of paying attention, you get all snobby and obnoxious and starting trying to address something that no one on this thread is arguing about. That is what happens when you rely on emotion instead of decent, intelligent discussion.

Even if I am right about what the new testament is teaching you have been filled with wisdom and philosophies of this world.Your mind has been trained to read the scriptutes in a way that only line up with what you have been taught.

Isn't funny how I'm aways calling you to wise, and your always questioning my intelligents altogether.

First of all, it is spelled "intelligence."

Secondly, I have not been filled with wisdom and philosophies of this world, I just know the Bible better than you. The lack of intellectual substance in your posts demonstrates that. Your inability/refusal to understand the argument that I am making also shows that you do not even have the courtesy to read what I said. Had you bothered to read, you would have seen that I nowhere advocated keeping kosher, or keeping the Sabbath. I was only pointing out that your approach was wrong, not your point of view. I guess expecting you to be intelligent enough to make that distinction proved to be a serious miscalculation on my part.

[nanasimmons]

I have read evey word you have wrote, But when I get time in the next couple of days I will re-read it all over again . I have not gotten angry or ranted the whole time we've been writing on these issues. If I lived in the flesh as some do I might have gotten offended on a few things you have said including my spelling but I don't worry such prideful things.

But there is one thing that is consistantly annoying me,and that is you telling me that i'm misinterpreting the Bible. I can't believe that I have to get a masters degree in Judisiam, in order to be able to understand it.

That would mean it wouldn't be wise to give anyone a Bible without a handbook on Jewish traditions. And that is not what Paul seems to be saying in his letters as I misinterpret them.

I hear almost the same things from my friend, and maybe some of my rudeness reflects things she has said instead of things you may have, If so I'm sorry.

[Guest shiloh357]

But there is one thing that is consistantly annoying me,and that is you telling me that i'm misinterpreting the Bible.

Well, whether you like it or not you are misinterpreting the Bible. For example...

When Jesus is arguing with the Pharisees about the purely rabbinic tradition of eating with unwashed hands and you use it to refer to the dietary laws in Leviticus 11 and Dead. 14, you are misinterpreting the passage.

When the Bible says that the ONLY meaning of Peter's vision is that Gentile are not to be considered unclean, and interpret the vision to say that pork was declared clean, you are misinterpreting the vision in Acts 10.

When Paul is talking about not eating food sacrificed to idols, and you apply it to the dietary commandments which Paul does not even mention, you are misinterpreting the passage.

You are consistently trying to use passages in the New Testament as commentary on the dietary laws, when just a simple cursory examination shows that these passages are not even talking about clean and unclean animals.

I can't believe that I have to get a masters degree in Judisiam, in order to be able to understand it.

Like I said, the Bible is a book in history written to a people in history. The Holy Spirit did not inspire the Bible apart from the culture and separate from the socio/political events peripheral to the specific events recorded in the Bible. It is not a matter of being a scholar, but of not being a lazy, careless student of the Word of God. A person who truly wants to understand the Bible should want to know about the culture and time period and the way it flavors how the Bible is written. That is just common sense.

The Bible was written by Jews, who lived and thought like Jews. Paul was a Torah observant Jew, and it is ironic and somewhat tragic that his writings are used as the death knell to Torah observance when by all accounts, and his own testimony, he was a Torah-faithful Jew even as a believer in Jesus. It seems that many Christians would prefer to just sweep that reality under the rug. The Holy Spirit used faithful, pious "law-keeping" Jews to spread His Gospel.

The point is, for those who choose keep the Torah as it regards the Sabbath, Kosher, etc., it is an extension and expression of their faith, not the negation of it. They should be able to live as they choose without disparagement from you or anyone else. With the exception of a fringe, radical element, most Messianic Jews are not trying to supplement their salvation, they are not trying to work their way into heaven. They are simply expressing their faith in the Lord as Jews, or in a Hebraic fashion in the event that they are not Jews.

That would mean it wouldn't be wise to give anyone a Bible without a handbook on Jewish traditions. And that is not what Paul seems to be saying in his letters as I misinterpret them.

One of the most irresponsible things we do in the Body of Christ is maintain an anti-intellectual posture towards the Bible. It is not wise to give anyone a Bible and just say, "read it." In the Church, we are suffering from a lack of discipleship and true meaningful study of the Bible. This is one of the reasons cults like the JWs and Mormons are able to get many of their converts from mainline Christianity. Part of discipleship is teaching people how to study, and we don't do that and then wonder why so many fall into egregious sin, and why so many fall prey to cults.

God does not bless or honor slackards where His Word is concerned. He does not honor attitude of those who do not care enough about the Bible to study it and to learn all that they can learn from it. Studying the Bible should be among the highest of our priorities. Unfortunately for most it is not. Then we expect God to honor such sloppiness, such laziness???

Why should not we all want to be scholars where the Bible was concerned??? Why should we not want to know all that we can know??? Why should we not want to be familiar with the culture the Holy Spirit used in the process of inspiration?? Should we not be curious as to why the Holy Spirit chose Jewish culture to birth Scripture??

[nanasimmons]

My Father God knows weather or not I'm misinterpreting,or if I'm lazy,careless,have a lack of common sense,if I'm irresponsible,unwise,a slackard,as well as sloppy and He will show me if I were any of these things as you say and He would correct me.I recieve His correction as He shows me my faults.

But to say I don't study,if you knew me you wouldn't say such things.If you knew how much time I spend in the Word,you would critisize me for that too.Not to mention of all my resources.

My husband knows if I hade to chose between him or the Bible, he would have to pack his bags.

But, I want to reread this thread before I dicuss anything further. My one year old son Samuel Malachi needs me right now...

[Guest shiloh357]

But to say I don't study,if you knew me you wouldn't say such things.If you knew how much time I spend in the Word,you would critisize me for that too.Not to mention of all my resources.

My point is that you have not studied the issues I am raising. You obviously have not studied the historical/cultural context, since as evidenced by your previous remarks, you were not aware that such knowledge was an integral part of the study of Scripture.

There simply truths and facts that are not picked up unless one looks for them, or even knows to look for them. You may study the Bible in other contexts, and I did not accuse you of not studying period, but of not studying within the Hebraic context that the Scriptures are written. The Holy Spirit uses Jewish culture, idiomatic references and the Hebraic frame of reference to reveal the truths set forth in the Scriptures. The New Testament is written in the language of the Festivals and the Sacrificial system. The Old Covenant provides the terminology employed by the Holy Spirit in the progressive revelation that unfolds in the New Testament.

The New Testament is written as if you already understand the Old Testament. Many Christians spend the majority of their time in the New Testament, and are completely unfamiliar with the Festivals and the Sacrifices. The Old Testament has been rendered irrelavent to the New Testament believer. When Paul preached and taught, he taught from the Old Testament. All of his epistles are written out of Torah/Old Testament knowledge.

The Torah/law is the seed bed for the unfolding of the progressive revelation of Scripture. It is the root. To treat the Torah with disdain as "elementary, worldly principles" or "worldly wisdom" is to defame and denigrate a part of the Word of God.

[nanasimmons]

357,

First of all, God chose me, I did not choose Him. I had a low education,and I was not

pre-indoctrinated.I was teachable.Matt. 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God."

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom,let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally,and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

My earnest prayers, have always been not to get lead astray. I don't want to get stuck in some ditch , become unteachable ,and cause a stunt in my growth.

I can see that intelect seems to play an important role in your walk, and maybe God placed you in that part of the body of Christ,so that you are able to preach to others who share the same interest in intelligence.

But if I were to be the same intellectual conversationalist as you, I would become unfruitful in the part of the body that God has placed me.

I know big words too, like some of my favorites are,thingamajiggy,whatchmacallit, and dohickeythingamabobber and these are very useful words in this part of the world..

(this was meant to be funny lol)

I went to the library yesterday and got a few books on Judaism,honestly I don't know what I am suppose to be looking for..

I know about the Holy Days and my understanding is , that if I wanted to give you a million dollars but I told you to pick one, (the shadow) or the actual money ( the substance) which one would be of most use??

Now if there is a"little book of reasoning" that I could purchase that would enable me to know what the Bible is saying , then by all means, share! Please..

I thought you might like to know that you keep mis-spelling circumcision.

What are you rules of study(Hereneutic study)and is there a book on that too?