Answer to atheists

[Fiosh]

Hi Thomas.

I use to rattle off the same stuff too. One day I heard from an old friend of mine and me and my wife joined him and his wife for drinks. I had always kind of been drawn to science, it always interested me and I did well with it.

I forget what I said exactly to him but he responded with, "Invoking the name of God as an answer is really a beautiful thing to think about, I wish it wasn't so easy to do." It seemed easy to hear and stunning in an all to true way.

Saying you know something doesn't mean you know it. I had to find that out the hard way.

I came to this board to get a better understanding of how to handle Christians and to see what they are willing to believe now-a-days. I have a Christian friend at work that is convinced I'll join the fold again. Of course I've heard this from every Christian like it's just an eventuality in everyone's life(accepting Christ) but it's still strange to hear. I told him I had to get use to talking to Christians about Christians again so I'd try a forum. To be honest, I'm afraid I'll offend him at some point even though I never felt offended in my deconversion.

It's more facinating, really, what atheists are willing to believe. You believe that this entire universe is one colossal accident.

......the grandeur of the Milky Way, the magnificence of the raging sea, the wonder of a hummingbird in flight, the complexity of the human body, the awesome mystery of the migration of the Monarch butterfly or the breeding cycle of the Emperor Penguin........one big accident.

WOW! what faith you have in accidents.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

we are genetic code(DNA) lived out with the illusion of freewill.

We are not an illusion. We did'nt get her by accident. We are not a possibility in reality. We are real !

I didn't say WE were an illusion. If you'll look back at the quote you offered of mine, you'll see that it was freewill that's the illusion.

I'm quite certain that we are a chemical reaction played out. Go take a couple of diet pills and tell me we aren't.

Hi again, Daniel Dennett. btw interesting choice of names; is he your mentor?

Ok, tell me something you are sure of. And then explain to me how you are certain of it.

Thanks,

F

[Fiosh]

Hi Thomas.

I use to rattle off the same stuff too. One day I heard from an old friend of mine and me and my wife joined him and his wife for drinks. I had always kind of been drawn to science, it always interested me and I did well with it.

I forget what I said exactly to him but he responded with, "Invoking the name of God as an answer is really a beautiful thing to think about, I wish it wasn't so easy to do." It seemed easy to hear and stunning in an all to true way.

Saying you know something doesn't mean you know it. I had to find that out the hard way.

I came to this board to get a better understanding of how to handle Christians and to see what they are willing to believe now-a-days. I have a Christian friend at work that is convinced I'll join the fold again. Of course I've heard this from every Christian like it's just an eventuality in everyone's life(accepting Christ) but it's still strange to hear. I told him I had to get use to talking to Christians about Christians again so I'd try a forum. To be honest, I'm afraid I'll offend him at some point even though I never felt offended in my deconversion.

One last thought for tonite.

Daniel, have you been here before under a different name? Everything you say has a very familiar ring to it.

Or is it that all atheist pretty much "rattle off the same stuff" ?

Nite,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

One last thought for tonite.

Daniel, have you been here before under a different name? Everything you say has a very familiar ring to it.

Or is it that all atheist pretty much "rattle off the same stuff" ?

Nite,

Fiosh

Sorry no. I guess we all do kinda sound alike. It doesn't take much thought to arrive at and keep these atheistic conclusions on Evolution and all that.

I have no problem with evolution. God invented it!

[Fiosh]

Hi Daniel,

I was thinking about this thread while driving to work this morning.

It's always a little amusing to me how atheists seem to imagine they've reached some higher plane of enlightenment. I was considering this analogy...

A young child enters the ocean for the first time. He plays along the water's edge in the sand, under the watchful eye of his father. After some time, his father urges him out into deeper water. Taking a few tentative steps, he makes his way out. Then a wave comes crashing in and startles him. He hurries back to safety. No amount of coaxing can bring him back out into the deep. He simply does not trust his father to protect him.

When I first experienced the ocean, it was with my father whom I loved and had learned to trust. I followed him out into the deep water. When the waves crashed in, I grabbed tightly to his hand, but I stayed with him, trusting him with my life. I knew that while those on the beach felt safe, they would never experience the wonder of the deep.

Daniel, you are on the beach calling out to those of us in the deep, "Come back, you fools, you're drowning." "You are blind and are deceived; don't trust your Father!"

Daniel, you are the one being deceived by the oldest lie in history, "eat from the tree and you will be as God".

Love,

Fiosh

[Guest Thomas I believe]

I use to rattle off the same stuff too.

Daniel, I am not rattling anything off. I am offering the truth. Its is your right to reject it or accept it. In the end that is your choice. You might say i'm defending my faith. I don't have to defend it though. My faith is based on the absolute truth and i feel content knowing that. The opportunity for me to share my faith with others is not restricted. I share my joy of the Lord with everyone i've met and meet. I have had people insult me, use the one finger gesture at me and i even had a guy take a swing at me for sharing the truth. Not all will like the truth nor accept it. Daniel you said you used to be a believer. What happened to cause you not to believe?

John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

[Guest Thomas I believe]

Daniel, you are on the beach calling out to those of us in the deep, "Come back, you fools, you're drowning." "You are blind and are deceived; don't trust your Father!"

Daniel, you are the one being deceived by the oldest lie in history, "eat from the tree and you will be as God".

In agreement with you sister.

[dakota190]

One last thought for tonite.

Daniel, have you been here before under a different name? Everything you say has a very familiar ring to it.

Or is it that all atheist pretty much "rattle off the same stuff" ?

Nite,

Fiosh

Sorry no. I guess we all do kinda sound alike. It doesn't take much thought to arrive at and keep these atheistic conclusions on Evolution and all that.

i can believe that. your above statement is the only honest thing i have heard an athiest say on this board yet. it's obvious that as a whole ya'll liketo engage in fruitless, endless, pointless, tail chasing debate. it appears to be a major hobby with those of your philosophical persuasion.

[dakota190]

Hi Daniel,

I was thinking about this thread while driving to work this morning.

It's always a little amusing to me how atheists seem to imagine they've reached some higher plane of enlightenment. I was considering this analogy...

A young child enters the ocean for the first time. He plays along the water's edge in the sand, under the watchful eye of his father. After some time, his father urges him out into deeper water. Taking a few tentative steps, he makes his way out. Then a wave comes crashing in and startles him. He hurries back to safety. No amount of coaxing can bring him back out into the deep. He simply does not trust his father to protect him.

When I first experienced the ocean, it was with my father whom I loved and had learned to trust. I followed him out into the deep water. When the waves crashed in, I grabbed tightly to his hand, but I stayed with him, trusting him with my life. I knew that while those on the beach felt safe, they would never experience the wonder of the deep.

Daniel, you are on the beach calling out to those of us in the deep, "Come back, you fools, you're drowning." "You are blind and are deceived; don't trust your Father!"

Daniel, you are the one being deceived by the oldest lie in history, "eat from the tree and you will be as God".

Love,

Fiosh

Great reply, Fiosh!!! i wish i had said that. not that he'll accept it, but i loved it.

[Fiosh]

SHUCKS, I have to go and ruin the party.

I can't actually call that a metaphor because it isn't one Fiosh. It sounds really nice and sweet and I enjoyed reading it for some reason but when I broke it down, even slightly, it didn't hold water. English is still mathematical.

Are we more enlightened? Well, the advanced civilizations have been living through what is called "The Age of Enlightenment" for around 200 years or so. Mostly that has to do with putting down the "absolute truth" for a bit. Kind of realizing that I can't learn a lot about fixing my car in the Bible, so I'll check out a book on it. We owe a lot of thanks to the major religions(not just Christianity) that chose to burn books knowing you have to hide the truth before you replace it.

Do I feel more enlightened personally? Yes. I see Evolution as the easiest thing to understand in the world. The hardest thing to understand is that for the most part, is why people can't grasp it. It takes like 10 minutes to understand. I know it derails Creationism but gimme a break.... It kind of makes me a little irritated actually. But, Evolution will do it's bidding no matter what. It will make those that don't understand it look ignorant more and more with the coming years to potential mates. They'll have an increasingly harder time finding a mate and not have offerspring and the genes won't continue and genetically the person will die out and with that, Creationism.

The other thing is all the practical everyday use I'm getting from Evolution. It'll be a huge spill that will take quite a bit of typing and I don't think I do it and answer it's inevitable "chop downs" at the same time. It's called Evolutionary Psychology, study it if you want. Keep in mind, I want you to.

Nah, you won't ruin the party, Daniel, you can be our little atheist mascot.

RE: "it didn't hold water"

Pun intended???

You put alot of distorted (and unrelated) info in the paragraph which begins "Are we more enlightened".

First off, living thru the age of Enlightenment does not automatically make one enlightened....nor does being an atheist.....nor does calling oneself a Christian.....nor does accepting or not accepting the theory of Evolution.

And I've already stated that I have no problem with the theory of Evolution....I'm not a fundamentalist. You can be a Christian and accept the principles of evolution; yet still believe in a Creator God. It's no stretch at all.

Your theory about having a hard time finding a mate if you are a Creationist made me chuckle. At least that's a new one! It hasn't been a problem for several thousand years, and I have my doubts that God plans to wait another thousand.

My degree is in Psychology, and though I haven't studied evolutionary psychology per se, I do understand the concept. It explains human behavior on a very basic "instinctual/survival" level, and in that respect it makes sense to a point. But, it's very theoretical and unsubstantiated in that it assumes the human being is no more complex than any other animal.

We've been thru this with other posters. Atheist always hate when we try to discuss unconditional or sacrificial love, because that's one area where this whole concept(evolutionary psychology) falls apart.

btw...you never explained why my little story was not a metaphor and why it doesn't hold water.

Glad you enjoyed it!

F

A violent squall came up and waves were breaking over the boat, so that it was already filling up.

Jesus was in the stern, asleep on a cushion. They woke him and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?"

He woke up, rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, "Quiet! Be still!" The wind ceased and there was great calm.

Then he asked them, "Why are you terrified? Do you not yet have faith?"

They were filled with great awe and said to one another, "Who then is this whom even wind and sea obey?"

Mark 4:37-41