What is proper attire for public worship?

[Gerioke]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame levis for the demise of civilization.

[apothanein kerdos]

He ignores the fact that in Western Europe during the fourth century, women wore pants that they adapted from the Persian women. Men would not wear such things because they considered them unmanly. I mean, it wasn't even until after the French Revolution that men began to stop wearing their heals and stockings (something exclusively made for women today)....but, Butero is an extremist, so facts will have no bearing on him.

[Gerioke]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame levis for the demise of civilization.

I don't believe anyone was going that far. It would be one of the many things wrong with the culture that is leading to the eventual demise of our civilization. Other things wrong include the increasing acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle, gutter language in common usage, fornication and shacking up finding acceptance, abortion on demand, people marking up their bodies with tattoos and body piercing, latch key children as both parents go off to work, violence in the schools, pornography everywhere, and I could go on and on. The culture is becoming more and more wicked and cross-dressing is just one of the many things that combined as a whole are leading to our eventual downfall. The nation will survive until our cup of iniquity is full and only God knows when that will be. The only thing I know is that judgement must first begin in the house of God and there is a lot of filth to be cleaned up.

Tide

[apothanein kerdos]

He ignores the fact that in Western Europe during the fourth century, women wore pants that they adapted from the Persian women. Men would not wear such things because they considered them unmanly. I mean, it wasn't even until after the French Revolution that men began to stop wearing their heals and stockings (something exclusively made for women today)....but, Butero is an extremist, so facts will have no bearing on him.

I provided facts A.K. through several links. I will post them again. They may contradict your so-called facts but so what? You will always claim your sources to be superior.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/living/mod...aring_pants.htm

http://www.bookrags.com/history/popculture...-women-sjpc-04/

http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_women_wearing_pants.htm

http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/dressing.htm

You can also get a good booklet on feminine attire from the web-site for Paw Creek Church in Charlotte. There is also a tract available from Baptist evangelist Dr. Hal Webb. That is likely available as well on-line. If not, the good people at Guillions Christian Supply can order one for anyone interested. They are independent Baptists that hold to my viewpoint on this matter as well. You would be surprised how many "extremists" there are among Independent Baptists that believe it is a sin for women to wear pants? If I could reconcile with their OSAS doctrine and their beliefs on the Holy Ghost it would be easy to find a good church to attend. They even hold to the Authorized King James Bible.

You're relying on sites that:

1) Are legalistic to begin with

2) Have nothing to validate their claims, they merely make them

3) Ignore the writings of 4th century historians that speak of women in Persian trousers.

[tah]

whited sepulchers come to mind...

I am with you when it comes to modesty ..

We need to be modest..That is scriptural..

but you lost me with bluejeans being the downfall of humanity...

Sin is the culprit... irregardless of what I have on...

[abbershay]

He ignores the fact that in Western Europe during the fourth century, women wore pants that they adapted from the Persian women. Men would not wear such things because they considered them unmanly. I mean, it wasn't even until after the French Revolution that men began to stop wearing their heals and stockings (something exclusively made for women today)....but, Butero is an extremist, so facts will have no bearing on him.

I provided facts A.K. through several links. I will post them again. They may contradict your so-called facts but so what? You will always claim your sources to be superior.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/living/mod...aring_pants.htm

http://www.bookrags.com/history/popculture...-women-sjpc-04/

http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_women_wearing_pants.htm

http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/dressing.htm

You can also get a good booklet on feminine attire from the web-site for Paw Creek Church in Charlotte. There is also a tract available from Baptist evangelist Dr. Hal Webb. That is likely available as well on-line. If not, the good people at Guillions Christian Supply can order one for anyone interested. They are independent Baptists that hold to my viewpoint on this matter as well. You would be surprised how many "extremists" there are among Independent Baptists that believe it is a sin for women to wear pants? If I could reconcile with their OSAS doctrine and their beliefs on the Holy Ghost it would be easy to find a good church to attend. They even hold to the Authorized King James Bible.

You're relying on sites that:

1) Are legalistic to begin with

2) Have nothing to validate their claims, they merely make them

3) Ignore the writings of 4th century historians that speak of women in Persian trousers.

First off as I have said before, legalism is not even a Biblical term. No place in the Bible has anyone been rebuked for standing up for God's standards. The only rebukes came against those who were demanding that we hold to the ordinances dealing with Israel's separation from the Gentile nations and traditions that nulified scripture. These sites are not guilty of doing either.

You have nothing to validate your claims but historians. In addition, did you say Persians? Even if that was true, it was a heathen culture. Many heathen cultures allowed cross dressing as part of their worship to idol gods. That information is also noted by many historians. It is just your sources against mine and of course you will choose to believe the ones that back up your position as I will likewise do.

I believe the term in the bible for leagalism is the yeast of the pharissees.

[DaniJ87]

He ignores the fact that in Western Europe during the fourth century, women wore pants that they adapted from the Persian women. Men would not wear such things because they considered them unmanly. I mean, it wasn't even until after the French Revolution that men began to stop wearing their heals and stockings (something exclusively made for women today)....but, Butero is an extremist, so facts will have no bearing on him.

I provided facts A.K. through several links. I will post them again. They may contradict your so-called facts but so what? You will always claim your sources to be superior.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/living/mod...aring_pants.htm

http://www.bookrags.com/history/popculture...-women-sjpc-04/

http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_women_wearing_pants.htm

http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/dressing.htm

You can also get a good booklet on feminine attire from the web-site for Paw Creek Church in Charlotte. There is also a tract available from Baptist evangelist Dr. Hal Webb. That is likely available as well on-line. If not, the good people at Guillions Christian Supply can order one for anyone interested. They are independent Baptists that hold to my viewpoint on this matter as well. You would be surprised how many "extremists" there are among Independent Baptists that believe it is a sin for women to wear pants? If I could reconcile with their OSAS doctrine and their beliefs on the Holy Ghost it would be easy to find a good church to attend. They even hold to the Authorized King James Bible.

Sites that are setting out to PROVE that pants are wrong for women, don't count as decent proof to me. The historical things other people have brought forth, in many cases are merely presenting facts; Wikepedia encyclopedia, for instance, has no agenda to prove that pants are good or bad; not being a "christian" organization, they have no need to justify or condemn them.

baptist fanatics are a disgrace to me, as a Baptist who is NOT legalistic or stuck on KJV. Not all of us do. Many many of us do not. However, because it is sometimes hard to find a decent Baptist church that doesn't get stuck on the KJV issue, (in fact, not very many at all demand dresses, that's kind of a minority thing,) I am now going to an wonderful Southern Baptist church... (www.jacobswellonline.com)

It is futile to debate with you, because your mind is closed to anything that could possibly enlighten you. I do not know why I continue to respond to you, other than that you continue to be wrong....

A link for you, following your "Christian perspective" selection....

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/stand...ress/pants.html

[Guest patti]

I recall my earliest memory of "proper" ? attire for the church was older ladies wearing fox collars with the beady eyes always seemingly staring at me, as I knelt or sat behind them. Also hats...every woman wore a hat, including me at about 5 years old. As I grew older, we still wore some kind of head covering, even if it was a piece of bathroom tissue, bobby-pinned to our hair. We generally wore dresses, unless it was winter, when we wore pants. Winters could be brutally cold in NJ.

Moving on to 1977 when I was visiting KY, yes, to a revival in a Baptist Church. I wore washed out jeans and a fringed blouse with beads, sandals and very long hair. I gave up dresses when I left the church I grew up in, and also the hats. I had been born again in '75 but for some reason the people in that KY Baptist all turned around and looked directly at me when the altar call was announced. I smiled and said "Praise the Lord", I guess to assure the people I was saved. Everyone was dressed in their Sunday best on a Wednesday night.

I moved from NJ to KY later that year and attended a Nazarene church, which just so happened to be the denomination where I first was told the Gospel a couple of years earlier. This church didn't like my jeans, and asked what size dress I wore, and they would get me a dress to wear to church. I never went back there. I later met a couple who invited me to their church and then to a Jesus Festival ( Ichthus '77 ) in Wilmore, KY, where everyone wore jeans, and no one spoke about "proper" attire for worshipping the Lord. We worshipped our Lord freely, wholeheartedly, and it was just a wonderful thing to experience.

The proper attire, I believe, is found in the heart. God will use anyone, no matter their financial situation, whether they be rich or poor or in between, as long as their heart is right with Jesus. God changes us as we grow in Him. We should never judge others by their clothing. God certainly doesn't. Let us not be so concerned with the outside of the person, but rather with what is inside.

God has changed me, and also I have seen Him change my husband, and He is continuing to change both of us. I am in awe of how God works His miracles in people.

TO GOD BE THE GLORY!

Patti

[RustyAngeL]

In our church a lot of people wear jeans. I have no problem with that, I 'myself wear jeans sometimes. However one time I saw a member in the summer come in's cut off, a tank top and sandles. Sorry but I really thought that was a bit much. We need to be respectful.

[David from New Bern]

Our culture has made huge changes in what is acceptable business attire and what people wear even to formal gatherings. Church has also followed suit with a more generally relaxed dress code. There was an adjustment period abut 20 years ago in most churches that reflected the difference between Sunday morning (formal), Sunday night (more relaxed), and Wednesday night (super casual). Now you can't find any unspoken rules. Some applaud this as a new openness in church, and others see it as a lack of reverence for the house of God. Some see it as a spiritual issue. Is this only a generational problem? Is it immaturity to embrace or not embrace this change in our culture? This question is prompted from a real life scenario recently

I invited a former member of our church to return to our church to share his musical talent. He is now a youth minister in a neighboring town. When he came he was dressed in jeans and a dress shirt. Dressed perhaps like 30-40% of the congregation gathered on a Sunday morning in our church. However he was wearing flip flops for shoes, and when it came time to perform he did so barefooted. An older member of my church said something about this a week latter in a private meeting. I noticed the flip flops but hadn't noticed the barefeet. I had no comment, because it caught me off guard. The brother in question is youthful and talented which lends itself sometimes to push the buttons of traditionalism. My first thought but unexpressed was that he was demonstrating that he was on holy ground in his worship. My concerned member thought it was lack of respect fr the pulpit and for the pastor. I know as the pastor I'm one of maybe 2 or three who wear a tie Sunday. What is discernment on this matter for our generation?

Something just crossed my mind about this..

Did you ask the guy why he chose to wear flip flops to church?

There is nothing quite like the "horses mouth" on issues..

I have a foot problem and sometimes my foot is so in pain that I cannot wear shoes..

Does he have a foot problem..

Is all this debate on pants because someone may have a problem with gout?

You said he likes to "push tradition" so did he do it out of rebellion?

we cannot know another persons mind if we do not ask..

Why not ask ..and of course when you find out let us know..

I am curious what the persons answer is..

I know him well enough to know he considers it his job to push the envelope a little bit. The first time I met him he had a strange hairdo even by contempary standards. He has an ear ring on the top rim of his ear. He wore flip flops to his wedding as well, even though he was otherwise formally dressed. He is an inspiring recording artist. I'm proud to call him my friend and little brother in Christ.