vitality22004 Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2006 Seraphimbride....if you find that kind of church, I will definitely want to sign up! lol... I get though all this by knowing that I belong to the universal church...so when someone asks me...which church do you go to, my response is...the church of the firstborn! What Jesus was talking about in John 17, David, for me is about a unity that flows from being connected to Him. The doctrinal differences that separate Christians, our styles of worship, our different interpretations of the Word are nothing more than limited revelations of who Jesus is. God speaks to us so clearly in our own human body of what His idea of unity was. There's a wonderful book by Watchman Nee on the subject (although God has progressively revealed much more in the years since) where he outlines how the body fits together in function. SO for me, it does not really matter what people say or the way they behave, there is a church, with every joint connected that is related to the Head, that receives instruction from the head via our nervous system, that has the heart of the Father that beats through it and the blood of the Son that runs through its arteries and the breath of the Spirit of God that gives it life, that you and I belong to, irrespective of race or CREED...that is the church, terrible as an army with banners, the new Jerusalem, the bride of Christ...more real in the Spirit than seen with the naked eye....so we press on in faith that it will become seen as the royal diadem it was supposed to be, the crowning glory that was prophesied, the mountain of the Lord that will be raised up in the day of the Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David from New Bern Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 527 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 David-- Heeey-was that a wise crack? Whether it was or not, I couldnt stop laughin. If your puttin me down-shame on ya It was just a joke... I'm glad it had the intended effect. Humor is dangerous sometimes but sometimes a tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Ernie Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Greetings, Just to add a little more: 1 Cor 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. Now to answer another poster - It is the Holy Spirit's job to reveal Jesus: John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: It took me a long time to become dependent upon the Holy Spirit, mostly because my carnal thoughts would attempt to interpret what He was saying to me. This is still a problem, but as I die daily to self, I lean more and more upon Him. I have met more people who claim they are Christians than I can count. But only a few does my spirit identify with their spirit. There are those on this board (WISDOM for one) with which my spirit clicks. I know that I know WISDOM is a true Christian. But it is the spirit within me that identifies with a "like" spirit. So it is possible to find those with whom you can fully identify with, even when there may be -some- disagreement in some areas. YOD is another good brother in Christ, one whom I can trust and in whom I can identify. The church has not yet been scattered, and whether it be a home church, a small church or a mega-church, one should continue (at this time) to try to find the fellowship with a local body as the Lord will provide. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2006 butero..in post #4 you suggest putting everyone who thinks or dresses or feel differently into a different place... I honestly believe if we did that we would hinder the work of the Lord significantly as we need to learn to love each other and to respect each other.. The same way with children..we may separate them for a "time out" but children must learn to respect each others indivduality..above all Love read cor.13.... those are all the things we need to do for each other in Christ... A few years ago I was really struggling with a my attitude about folks and how hard it was to just get along with them.. I was put off by this persons attitude and that persons bad habit and that persons way of screaming when they preached or whatever.. We all have our personal likes and dislikes.. I know God was not happy with my attitude and I know the scripture about being at peace with all men.. I wanted to feel that way..I did not like being so nit picky about my likes and dislikes of people.. I do not know how anyone can be happy and feel that way all the time.. Anyhow..I was getting pretty depressed about it and actually loosing sleep and weight it was so bothersome to me.. Then a dear friend told me two things... One..the scripture says "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." Rom 12:18 It is there to remind me to draw on the Holy Spirit within me to do my best to be at peace with all men..my best is all that is required... If differences were not a common problem this scripture would not exist.. I can only do my best and so can everyone else.. Two.. 2Co 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. The other thing was to look for the Lord in people..do not go by what you see on the outside.. We have no idea why they are the way they are nor do they know us.. Every Christian has something within them of the Lord and I may need to know what they know of Him... If I am willing to look I will probably find it.. I have to accept that others are going to be different from me.. Apple trees have apples and fig trees figs... both have good fruit only they are different.. I accept that and will look for the Lord within people and not at their "peelings"... A screaming preacher puts me off but I have learned that inside that screamer is Christ.. muddle through all that and find Christ... That is our common ground... someone believes you should wear this or that and I feel differently.. Find the Christ within each other... That is all that is going to remain anyhow.... everything else gets burned up as dross... We come to Him as children and we all need to grow up.. some of us grow at faster rates than others.. But we do all need to grow up.. I have only been here a short time but have learned from some of you as you have shared Christ on this board. I am growing up a little at a time... we can sincerely try not to squash each other but to nurture each other instead... I have done some squashing and I have done some nurturing... I much prefer the nurturing.. (my heart hurts me when I know I have hurt people..} I am so far from my goal in this and I pray always for the Lord to grow me up and change me to be more like Him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2006 Yeah....roughly stated...but the tension I'm concentrating on in this were the words of Jesus in His high priestly prayer in John 17 when He prayed for unity in the Body. I have fellowship with many believers from multiple denominational backgrounds, but then there are others I can love but I can't join with them in minstry. Yet, I am smart enough to know there is much room for diversity, but I can't see compromise of truth to just get along. I see a lot of issues that divide to be non-salvific in nature and we can just respectfully disagree.I guess question: should we be fighting for unity or truth? Or am I too much of an idealist? I once read a great devotion from Spurgeon about unity. Today when we think of unity, we think of unity among believers, which can mean compromising some basic beliefs in order to get along. Spurgeon talked about unity of belief, not unity among ourselves. I think your second to last line says it all: should we be fighting for unity OR truth. Seems like you understand that today unity often comes at the cost of truth. What we should strive for is unity of truth. To be united in the core beliefs about who Jesus is, salvation etc. Some things you CANT compromise on. I will not be in unity with mormons (the example brought up earlier) since they teach a false gospel. I can be in unity with a baptist and a pentecostal, since we have unity of the core beliefs, even though there are vast differences in non salvational issues. In the quest for unity, understand what unity means first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi770 Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 119 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,316 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/01/1970 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Religion is man made-so accordingly it will cause divisions. (This is how we should function) We are considered to be the Church-called the Body of Christ. Those who follow Jesus. We are many members of the body-just like a human body has many parts-this body has different members who operate in different callings,gifts and talents. Each part has an understanding of their part and the importance to the complete body. Each part responds only to the head-who is Jesus. We are called to follow the will of God for our Life-listening to the leadings and guidings of the Holy Spirit. We support the complete body and if one member is hurt or having a problem-we support/embrace and help that part until it comes into complete healing-because we realize the need for their part and the body can not function correctly without that part. We do not criticize a different part, or judge whether they are following the will of God-because they were called differently. We do not judge them when they do not have the same revelation that we have received-because the Head, knows when we need the knowledge-to make our part function correctly. We are not critical of the parts that are unseen-for we know that their function is needed to complete the body. We support the vocal and visual parts and the vision that God has placed in their life. We operate in Unity!! This is not the time to be ashamed of the Gospel of Christ-or the function or calling that God has placed in your heart. We must Arise and shake off the dust and allow God to stir up the gifts and talents in our life. Keep your eyes on Jesus. Keep your eyes off things that divide!! Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost. We must continue to do what he has called us to do-and not make excuses in our life. We must walk in Love with others and not hold them to a standard that we ourselves can not attain. We must be willing to lay our lifes down for others.When we allow those things to divide us-it keeps our eyes off Jesus. The devil is crafty-but he has also made us able to see the devils ways. We must learn to except that we have not arrived to a full knowledge-but press in to what God has given us each day. When we are doing what God has called us too-its hard to be consumed with what someone else is or isn't doing. Religion is a safety net sometimes that will keep us safe in its boundry- Have you ever questioned if someone was a Christian and they tell you they have been in a particular denomination for 20 years- When you ask what the Lord is doing in their life- it consists of denominational things or church related activities. Isn't that real safe? What if Jesus told you to go and share a message about him-would you share about your local church building or would you testify about Jesus. Our goal is not to lead people to a building it should be to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. Religion will never set anyone free-but Jesus can. Blessings, Candi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted April 25, 2006 You know Candi I agree with much of what you have said. However, I do think that our congregations are important, and that means who we worship with and what they believe together and in common and importantly in unity. The building is not important but the common belief and doctrine is important as is the gathering together as God's people to hear His Word and do things He has commanded us to do, such as Baptize and take communion. But I totally see what you are saying about being a Christian or belonging to such and such a denomination, it does provide a safety net at some level that we need to be shaken from, I agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi770 Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 119 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,316 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/01/1970 Share Posted April 25, 2006 smalcald, Yes it is very important to be involved with a local body of believers. Where the Lord is exalted, the word of God is first place and where the shepherd is called of God and the body is united with the vision set before him. Where the body is discipled and growth is expected. Where the lost are being reached with the Good News and the Shepherd truly cares for the sheep. We need each other!!! The Church or Body of Christ is not considered a building though or a denomination as far as that is concerned. Candi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted April 25, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 25, 2006 Beutero...I cannot understand your thinking.. I stated how I felt and I cannot say more .. that is it.. butero..in post #4 you suggest putting everyone who thinks or dresses or feel differently into a different place... I honestly believe if we did that we would hinder the work of the Lord significantly as we need to learn to love each other and to respect each other.. The same way with children..we may separate them for a "time out" but children must learn to respect each others indivduality..above all Love read cor.13.... those are all the things we need to do for each other in Christ... I am speaking about those who are believers and those who are seeking to know him getting along.. we need to and that is all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David from New Bern Posted June 14, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 527 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1964 Author Share Posted June 14, 2007 Red flags go up when you mention the term "ecumenical". Yet, we admit that God never approved the propagation of the multiplicity of denominationalism that are man made creations to account for his many preferences in faith and practice. That there is safety in hiding behind a denominational tag which keeps you free from personal scrutiny. But we remain scared of a melting pot under the banner of "ecumenicalism". Is there anything wrong with "ecumenicalism?" Isn't the goal of the Body of Christ unity? Or should we work inside of our denominations to bring them to doctrinal purity and practice and give up on the pipe dream of unity? Some time back, this thread was started by David from New Bern. I was reminded about it while discussing a similar topic about denominations and whether they were good or bad? The question is, can the body of Christ really come to a place of complete unity bringing about an end to the need for denominations and basically churches on every corner, or are these divisions necessary? Is it the only way we can have peace when it comes to worshipping God? In addition, does the fact we choose to divide up into groups mean that we think we are the only true church, or is it simply the best system we can come up with given the fact none of us interpret scripture alike, or like the same type of music, style of worship service, or even Bible translations? Hey Butero...My e-mail notification reminded about worthyboards. You mean this thread is still alive...14 months later. I guess we didn't solve this one quickly. The subject came up recently around a cup of coffee with 2 Presbyterians, 2 Baptist, 1 Pentecostal, and an independent Charismatic pastor. In fact, we were all pastors...it was an accountability group I attend on Wednesdays. They are all my friends so we enjoy exploring each others views. I never heard anyone raise their voice when challenged on what they believe. That is unusual among those with credentials in any discipline. The independent charismatic suggested that while denominational origins are the result of conflict they have become a strategic outreach plan. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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