vitality22004 Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 Where there is alcohol abuse in a marriage, often the spouse and children suffer for years in silence in the cycle of abuse. There is verbal abuse, aggression, financial instability and lots more. I had to counsel a lady recently who had been advised by her pastor that it was God's will for her to remain in her marriage despite the problems she was experiencing as a result of alcohol. Her husband was Christian, attending church although irregularly, got drunk on a regular basis, insisted on driving under the influence often with her three minor children in the car and was verbally abusive of her in front of the children and sometimes in public and at her place of employment. Is the pastor correct in his counsel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 According to Jesus, adultery is the only grounds for divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershot Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 60 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/17/1964 Share Posted May 6, 2006 That is right marnie. proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thy heart shall utter perverse things. This verse in the Bible talks about one of the effects of drinking or being drunk. If he is drinking and going to bars alot there is a good chance she could catch him in adultery if she tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchesofHim Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 211 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,463 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 759 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/23/1966 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Where there is alcohol abuse in a marriage, often the spouse and children suffer for years in silence in the cycle of abuse. There is verbal abuse, aggression, financial instability and lots more. I had to counsel a lady recently who had been advised by her pastor that it was God's will for her to remain in her marriage despite the problems she was experiencing as a result of alcohol. Her husband was Christian, attending church although irregularly, got drunk on a regular basis, insisted on driving under the influence often with her three minor children in the car and was verbally abusive of her in front of the children and sometimes in public and at her place of employment. Is the pastor correct in his counsel? 3 scriptural basis for divorce: Adultery Abuse (which is where this falls obviously) Abandonment I've personally experienced all 3. And God is so very merciful and wonderful to me. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 There are only two reasons given for divorce one is adultery and the other is abandonment. in the case of adultery it is G-d heart that the spouse forgive and reconcile the relationship if this is not possible then divorce is permitted because of uncleanness. The other is abandanment if one runs off leaving the other stranded it is permissible. In the cases of abuse i think it is wise to seperate for a time of prayer and fasting and try to work through your problems if at all possible but be safe apart from harms way. G-d will give more grace to the relationship to overcome and the family can be reconciled in alot of cases. Some cases are more difficult and dangerous in these cases it might mean that the one being abused may have to seperate permantly from the marriage but in these cases they will have to remain single and not remarry. The door must remain open for reconciliation because you are still bound to your spouse so to bring another into your life would cause them to commit adultery with you while you are still bound biblically to your spouse. If the spouse remarries then at that time you are free to marry again for they released you by a bill of divorcement. it is always the heart of G-d to restore broken relationships. the word says that divorce was allowed because of the hardness of their hearts. Well a hard heart is a result of sin. It is sin in the hearts that causes divorce to happen. if we would focus on the hearts in the relationships and acknowledge our sins and then confess them then G-d can and will give more grace to overcome the problems that divide in the relationship. Marriages need more grace not divorce and broken homes with broken children. G-d wants reconciliation in marriage the things between you can be worked out in so many of these situations but not all because of sin the hardness of heart. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitality22004 Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 Thank you for your replies. What happens though if he drives under the influence and insists on taking the children with him? Does God require her as a parent to protect her children in these circumstances? As he is Christian, should not the church help him with counselling and bring him to repentance instead of placing the burden on her to stay in the marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 Thank you for your replies. What happens though if he drives under the influence and insists on taking the children with him? Does God require her as a parent to protect her children in these circumstances? As he is Christian, should not the church help him with counselling and bring him to repentance instead of placing the burden on her to stay in the marriage? hello vitality, if someone is driving under the influence i think it wise not to go with them at all. in this case you are describing to us here is the husband in this relationship has an alcohol problem and while he is in this state of drunkenness it is very clear that he does not have good and right judgment to insist on this kind of behavior from you or your kids. In this case maybe you should call 911 for assistance and keep your kids safe for that is your responsibility as a mother. Not only your children but also you and your husband safety as well. If his behavior is that bad being under the influence maybe you should try comitting his to hospital for a time until he gets the help he needs this is not easy on your part but for your own childrens and family sake it might be an option. Does G-d require her as a parent to protect her children in these circumstances? Absolutely G-d expects this he chose her to be a mother and care and rear her children i wouldn't even second guess this in this situation for it might be to late if she doesn't protect them and herself. As he is Christian should not the church help him with counselling and bring him to repentance instead of placing the burden on her to stay in the marriage? The church should always IMO be there for people who are struggling with serious problems for it is the church who have the "godly" counsel in which we need. As far as bring him to repentance is concerned only the man in this case can decide to acknowledge and then confess his sins we unfortunately can do this in the hearts of individuals we can only be a helping hand to hold on to and gently guide them in the right way through a true heart of compassion. The women in this case should not have to wear the burden and stay in the marriage for she has options but it will take courage on her part to work through these hard times. She can call for help like 911 when there is danger of driving under the influence she can have friends that will help in these cases. She can temporily leave and be seperated until her husband gets the help he needs so they want all be in danger. They can work through these problems together but apart from one another all being safe. I know G-d understands what is going on what it is causing this christian man to drink and act the way he does and if the man is a christian he should be humbled when help is offered to him as i'm sure he don't like his self to much when he has to look back over the things he has done to his family. But G-d will give more grace to this marriage and G-d is an ever present help in times of trouble. And committing your husband may be an option to think about. I will be praying for you in this situation Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitality22004 Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 6, 2006 That is right marnie. proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thy heart shall utter perverse things. This verse in the Bible talks about one of the effects of drinking or being drunk. If he is drinking and going to bars alot there is a good chance she could catch him in adultery if she tried. What about 1 Cor 5:11 guys? The Corinthian church was exhorted not to associate with anyone who was Christian and known to be an adulterer, idolater or a person with a foul tongue or is a drunkard. Does this mean that this applies to everyone you are not married to but if you are married to any of the above, God expects you to not just associate with them but to live with them and submit to them? That Scripture ends by saying 'you must not so much as eat with such a person'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 That is right marnie. proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thy heart shall utter perverse things. This verse in the Bible talks about one of the effects of drinking or being drunk. If he is drinking and going to bars alot there is a good chance she could catch him in adultery if she tried. What about 1 Cor 5:11 guys? The Corinthian church was exhorted not to associate with anyone who was Christian and known to be an adulterer, idolater or a person with a foul tongue or is a drunkard. Does this mean that this applies to everyone you are not married to but if you are married to any of the above, God expects you to not just associate with them but to live with them and submit to them? That Scripture ends by saying 'you must not so much as eat with such a person'. Hello Vitality, The women cannot use the scriptures as a loop hole. This reveals her heart if this is the thinking right now. If she wants to leave her husband because of his behavior and I can understand that I truly can. It is very hard to be around those who carry on like that let alone your own husband especially if you are a christian who fears the Lord it is extremly offensive behavior to have to deal with. They have chosen in this life to marry this man and they have kids they are bound to him now by law it does not matter if he is christian or not they said the marriage vows for better or for worse. All i can tell you is that it can get better by G-ds grace. That there can be true happiness again within their marriage. But I can see by response of scriptures that the women is probably hardened right now as well and is having no tolerance to working at this relationship and for doing the things maybe she needs to do in order for reconcilation between the two of them. If their heart is made up to leave then all the christian counseling for her and her husband does no good for the home will be forever broken and with broken homes comes broken lives. I pray that she would not use the word of G-d to try to find loop holes that will lead her in the wrong way a midst her hurting heart. lots of time the anger and bitterness we have in our hearts guides us and decieves us so that we can't get to the wound and pain of our own heart to mend it and dress it as it needs to be. For I have found this deception within my own life dealing with my own problems. Don't let the pain and anger and bitterness guide them adress the pain in heart and take care of it so healing can come to their entire family. Teach them to Take courage to do what must be done. blessings once again Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 If someone is looking for an excuse to get a divorce for whatever reason they can come up with they will find it... But it is wrong...other than adultery... I had a dear friend whose husband was a terrible alcoholic and he was verbally abusive and threatening and freightening in his drunken bouts.. She loved him and her children and prayed and prayed and believed God for his deliverance .. When things got tough she went to a safe place and let him "do his thing".. It never entered her mind to divorce him as she was committed for life.. separation for safety sake yes, divorce never... after several years the man became a tower of Christian strength to his family... for God wonderfully delivered him... You would never know they had such terrible problems... But this woman did the Godly thing and stayed married... This is love in action... I have seen this more than once with couples who were struggling... only the ones that remained faithful to Gods word survived the struggle and remained married. The others...some went on to more trouble and fell far away from the Lord... Read the love chapter again...pray ...stay connected to the Lord ...remain faithful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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