traveller Posted September 12, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2003 Who was it way back there that, for a small gift, would send you miraculous healing sand from Israel, the holy land, the place where Jesus Himself walked. Maybe He walked on the very sand you'll receive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith1 Posted September 12, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 891 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2003 Greetings Godman... Thanks so much for all your input here it's been very informative. I do believe what you say is the truth as it lines up entirely with scripture as far as I can see. I thank God that in His mercy and grace He opened your eye's to the truth. In New Zealand we dont really get TBN unles you have a really good satellite system, but when I was in Canada and the US I did watch some of it and it just did not seem quite right to me... I have always been an avid reader...(book mad) so I do believe that our Lord in my case used this desire to constantly check and re-check what some so-called Christians were saying... aside of my bible my strongs concordance greek and hebrew have been a great source to me over the years.... I am a great believe in thinking that all Christians need to have their own personal relationship with Christ and 'study to show thyself approved.... May God continue to bless you brother and all glory and praise to Him for bringing you out of such a decietful enviroment. The Lord has said...vengence is mine I will repay...and we know He will in His time and in His way... 'it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God'...Amen! I am blessed to call you my brother In Christ Guessa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted September 12, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Author Share Posted September 12, 2003 Thanks, Guessa. May we all endeavor to seek out the truth in Christ Jesus, and stay in the word and fellowship together! "Flee youthful lusts and pursue righteousness faith, love and peace with all those who call upon the name of the Lord out of a pure heart." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faith1 Posted September 12, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 891 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 55 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2003 Amen brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dove2 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 God-man, I have to thank you again for exposing TBN. It is a real blessing to know the truth. I am learning so much through this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted September 14, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Author Share Posted September 14, 2003 I have edited the original second post in this thread so as not to offend anyone who may consider my account of sexual immorality at TBN as gossip. I apologize if I have already offended anyone. With regard to the subject, I have been asked by a few here whether I still harbor any feelings or anymosity toward TBN for what i went through there. I will say that I do not have any hard feelings at all, but that when I view what man's religion has done, and is doing in the name of Christ, to people, I get really irked. And this would be true if I had come out of Catholicism, Protestant denominationalism, the Charismatic movement, or any other religion which places certain doctrines, teachings, rituals, rites, etc., over Jesus Christ and the Bible. The Gospels and history clearly show us that the real Christ is verses man's religion. So, if anything came of this experience, it was the advantage of learning veryu early in my Christian life that man's religion fails utterly to bring man to the real and living Christ of the Bible. I think that many believers are beginning to learn the same lessons I have learned over the years with regard to religion. Increasingly believers are beginning to wonder if religion really satisfies God, and whether or not they are in the proper place the God desires them to be. Some are being called out of religion by God, and are left to wonder, "Well, what now?" It is the "what now" that can leave lovers of the Lord Jesus to feel a bit insecure, for after a period of time in that religious system - whatever that was - they have understood that to be the norm. For example, many inthe WoF movement have been taught for so many years that that is the true representation of what Christianity really is. They have been taught through speaking and through the various publications that Christianity is really what they say it is. And so people, being like sheep for the most part, simply believe what they are taught. Then someone comes along and says, "No, this is not what it's all about," and the first reactions is, "No, this really is what it's all about," and thus the arguments start. When the Lord calls you out of religion you have to learn to seek the real and living Christ of the Bible - for yourself. This is problematic for believers who are used to simply believing what they are taught by their former religious leaders. There can be great feelings of abandonment, betrayal, and insecurity about what to do next. Even long-time believers can be prey to this kind of thing. When I consider the situation in Christianity with believers leaving religion and seeking after the genuine Christ of the Bible, I often think of Ezekiel 34. This passage is God's speaking to Ezekiel saying, "...Prophesy against the shepherd of Israel." There is a grave warning and curse toward the shepherds of Israel who were feeding themselves on the flock of God and causing God's people to become sick and weak, being prey for the wild wolves; causing them to be scattered abroad over the face of the earth where none search or seek after them. Ezekiel 34 speaks directly to the false shepherds of today: The shepherds of today are taking God's people, God's sheep, and feeding themselves - Material riches at the cost of the sheep. The spiritually weak they have not fed - Spiritually, the deep things of God have not been fed to believers. Believers first need to be brought into the fold. Then they need to be feed on the rich green grass of the ministry of Christ. The sick are not being healed - The spiritually sick are not being healed with the Word of God, but rather through humanistic means such as psychology, psychiatry, etc. The strayed have not been brought back, and the lost have not been sought out - There is more care for the propagation of the Gospel - getting people into the kindgom in quantity. But those that have strayed are not being sought after. They are not being kept in the fold. They have been scattered because there was not shepherd, and they became food for the wild beasts. They are scattered and no one is seeking them or searching for them. - The huge crusades do well to bring people into the kingdom of God, but they are left alone as young sheep to fend for themselves. There is no nurturing, or caring for the sheep, and so they become food for the enemy who is the wild beast, the lion, seeking to devour spiritually immature believers. This is the situation with the so-called Shepherds of today. But there is a postive side that we need to see. God is calling His sheep to Himself! He is calling all of His sheep, and bringing them to greener pastures, to feed His sheep on Himself as the green grass: "He makes me to lie down in green pastures." The green pastures are the food of the living God. It is just Christ as the living bread, the food for God's sheep. "He leads me beside still waters." The still waters are the Living Spirit to fill us. They are not the disrupted tumultuous waters of the world and of religion. They are the cool, still living Waters of the Spirit. God the Father becomes the shepherd feeding us on Christ as the cool grass, and filling us with the Spirit as the still waters. This is the good news! When God calls us out of religion, He calls us into Himself! He calls us by the Son, with the Spirit, and heals us from our afflictions. He brings us to stillness and peace. This was my experience of having been called out of religion. You know, believers always have a "honeymoon" experience when they are initially regenerated. But I can tell you that I had a second honeymoon when I was saved from that religious system. There is only one inoculation from the disease of religion. That is just Christ Himself, with the healthy teaching of the apostles. Paul's writing to Titus, encouraging him to reprove the believers severly that they may be healthy in the faith, was the inoculation needed by the saints of God who had been led away by false prophets and accused by opposers of the faith (Titus 1:9, 13; 2:2; 1 Tim. 1:10; 6:3). Much grace in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord be with your spirit. ~G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches Posted September 14, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 95 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,315 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2003 phew! i m finally done with all this reading. well i must say about two weeks ago i was badly burnt when i read about these false teachers on TV. i just felt deeply hurt but i didn't understand why. i mean . . .i know that there are going to be false prophets and all but i didnt figure that it would hurt me if i was victim to them. hurt as in literal heart break. i didn;t know the whole thing had a name . . . WOF is it? darn . . .what a bummer . . i had so many things to say and yet i just drew a blanky. if and when i remember i will come back with my insights . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches Posted September 14, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 95 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,315 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/25/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 14, 2003 When the Lord calls you out of religion you have to learn to seek the real and living Christ of the Bible - for yourself. < < < thats a quote, the quote thingy here isn't working for me or maybe i am using it wrong. okay, back to the quote. this is the best favour u can ever do for urself. i can not stress how seriously important it is to " learn to seek the real and living Christ of the Bible - for yourself." this is from personal experience. this is hard sometimes for me cos i am always worried about pride and all. u know . .when God reveals something to me i feel so good about it. i worry that it might turn into something like pride or something . . . that God is actually teaching ME!. it happened once . . .i got caught up in one revelation God made to me that i stopped searching for other amazing and wonderful truths that awaited cos i was so caught up in my little moment of awe that God actually said something to me. back to the point. when u do research on ur own and u have God as ur teacher there are so many advantages to it 1 the info u are getting is more than 100% accurate 2 u can discern better cos u know what the bible says first hand without having to copy from someone else 3 when u are in a discussion u can say what u say with confidence cos u know the info is reliable and all. 4 its hard if not impossible to forget things that u are taught by The Man himself. this is not to say we don't need elders or teachers or whatnot. this is to say it is better to go seek help knowing at least something of what u ask than to go seek from mere humans with nothing. completely relying on their input. i mean they can tell u anything and u can so easily believe it. like the ridiculousness of God being whatever nonsense they said . . . pretty upsetting that they dare say that about God. do these people know who they are dealing with. i mean . . do they even comprehend what they are doing. shame . . .a complete and utter shame. another blanky . . . am i that old already !?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 14, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 14, 2003 well i must say about two weeks ago i was badly burnt when i read about these false teachers on TV. i just felt deeply hurt but i didn't understand why. i mean . . .i know that there are going to be false prophets and all but i didnt figure that it would hurt me if i was victim to them. hurt as in literal heart break. Hey, Peaches! If it's any consulation, I k now the feeling. I would venture to say we all do. But it makes sense to feel hurt. If you think about it, God designed us to be in relation with each other, and when you trust yourself to a teacher, there is a sort-of connection you form with that person. Plus, we humans seem to have this weakness of regarding spiritual leaders more highly than we ought to. So, when exposures like this happen, you feel the trust you place in them broken (that hurts), you feel a relationship of sorts (disciple to teacher) shattered (that hurts), something you took pride in is toppled (that hurts), and on top of that something you believed in is taken away (that leaves a hole, often leaving you wondering, "OK, now what do I believe?" and that leaves you feeling lost in limbo land). When I went through such times, I recalled a song that went: So many times in my life I thought it was You But I was mistaken. So many things in my life I tought were from You But now they've been taken Through the confusion, the times of defeat The struggle that always remains No matter how hopeless and dark it may seem You never change! So many times in my life Decisions I made Seemed right at the moment So many times in my life Things that I said Were better unspoken Through all the seasons, the years of my life One thing will always remain No matter the struggle, the heartache, the strife You never change! So many times in my life Promises made Lie shattered and broken So many times in my life I've run away I've stumbled and fallen You never change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 14, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted September 14, 2003 When the Lord calls you out of religion you have to learn to seek the real and living Christ of the Bible - for yourself. This is problematic for believers who are used to simply believing what they are taught by their former religious leaders. There can be great feelings of abandonment, betrayal, and insecurity about what to do next. Even long-time believers can be prey to this kind of thing. I can really identify with this statement. I feel like I have been receiving nudging from the Lord to change directions.... Part of me doesn't want to let go. What I feel and see at times seems far from what the Lord wants or expects of me/us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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