One quick answer to one of atheists questions.

[Guest jckduboise]

Grace to you,

Wanna know why that doesn\'t work? Because a man going into a barbershop can get his hair cut, but a starving african will not suddenly be fed by believing in God.

Who says a starving African who belives in God won't suddenly be fed?

Peace,

Dave

Good point..we have a lot of questions about why this and why that but I don't really see any of those asking these questions going out and trying it on for real. It seems to me it is much easier for people to be cynical when they are afraid of something instead of trying it on to see if it fits.

[Inti]

You know 500 years ago, everyone did "believe" in God. They had to.

The world was just as ugly then.

[apothanein kerdos]

You know 500 years ago, everyone did "believe" in God. They had to.

The world was just as ugly then.

Because man's nature has always remained the same. No one is saying that believing in God is somehow a cure all for the travesty of man. A life dedicated to God, however, is one life that can help ease the pain of this world.

[Bolts]

To atheist here's an input I would like to give you, because I am honestly tired of getting your question, ''If there is A God, then why do all those poor people dying of hunger each day, or all those disasters happening in the world.

A man went into a barbershop to get haircut , when He was having his harcut and having th usual conversations people have with barbers, they eventually got into the religion topic in the discussion if there is A God, the guy getting the haircut was christian, while the barber was an atheist, so the barber tells the guy,'' look the reason I don't think there is a God is I just can't believe that if there was 1, He would let people die because of hunger and let natural disasters happen aswell let all thoses wars happen, I just cannot believe it'', the guy getting the haircut just sat quiet avoiding getting into a heavy argument., after a bit the barber ended cutting his hair and so the guy left the barbershop, as he left he saw a man with a lot of hair, so when the guy that just had the haircut saw this, he went back into the barbershop and ask the barber, ''Do you believe that barbers exist?'' and the barber inmediatly answer,'' of course barbers exist!I am a berber myself, so barbers do exist, why would you think otheriwise!'' and the guy answered back'' well I just went outside an saw a man with a lot of hair so and you haven't cutted it so I don't believe barbers exist'' and the barber again answer'' of course I would cut his hair, but first his has to come and look for me and find me!'' '' and the guy replied'' exactly, that's why you have to go and seek for God! "

In overview, God can fix the world, just the world has to seek God, God has done the most allready, all we got to do is, open our eyes and look .

The world would be a lot better if we all looked for God, unfortunately we don't so we are mostly not protected from disasters and thing, but yet God still protects us from many that we don't notice.

Note: The article I posted was a quick translate from spanish to english, so there might be some errors on the sentences

Spanish!! Kewl!!

[dakota190]

cellshade, i liked your comparitive story, and i understood it perfectly. unfortunately with some the gnashing of teeth has already begun. thank you and God bless you!!!

i have a question for all of you teeth gnashers and tail chasers. where is the list of things you and your fellow athiests have done for the starving and homeless and downtrodden, you so vehemently try to lay at our (christians) feet. again i will point out to you, this tired old question you keep asking has been answered and as usual you REFUSE to see the point, etc; etc; etc; ATHIESTS: get a new hobby, you are becoming a boil. not a threat, just an irritant, like a single mosquito in a tent, when a camper is trying to sleep, and he keeps buzzing around, until the camper has had his fill.

Edited May 28, 2006 by dakota190

[Crisor]

After reading that I might be banned using that link, I decided to remove it on my own. I wouldn't want to make anybody angry which is not my intention. I only wish to educate and show why some of the arguments used against atheists do not work, as in the one above.

Let me sum up what the link said:

1) The analogy does not work becasue, for one, it implies that suffering and pain are caused because someone does not seek god. This is false as any christian knows who has suffered in any way. This is also biblical incorrect as the book of Job and others found in the bible suffer greatly despite the fact that they seek God first.

2) The barber, or any barber for that matter, is not considered to be a benelovent omnipotent being required to cut all peoples hair. God, however, is considered to be such yet allows something, in this case pain, that he could possibly stop if he wished and yet does not.

3) The man just got his hair cut by a barber, to turn around and say that he no longer believes in them is nonsense. Just because he saw a man with a lot of hair does not mean that the man has never had his hair cut. The man may have had his hair cut in the past, yet does not want it cut now. The customer makes a false assumption about the man on the street.

These are just a few of the arguments that can be used agaisnt the analogy. Christians should be aware of these and any others that might pop up if they plan on using this sort of tatic agaisnt an atheist. Study and research would be highly recommneded before trying this approach, however.

Crisor

Edited May 28, 2006 by Crisor

[dakota190]

Here is a thread that shows why this analogy is wrong. Just trying to educate before someone goes and uses it and ends up looking bad.

The barber analogy

Hope this helps.

in your humble opinion of course.

[Crisor]

of course

[apothanein kerdos]

I cannot stress that the analogy, and subsequent attacks on the analogy, are flawed. Sometimes people do suffer for the things they do, this is inevitable and does occur. At the same time, there is suffering that is brought on simply by being human. A child starving in Africa did nothing to deserve this, yet it still occurs. Why?

In order for us to appreciate the grace of God and the love of God, we must know how bad things are. Grace would mean nothing if there was no reason for it. If suffering did not exist, if it did not seem needless, then there would be no reason for a measure of God's grace through it.

Secondly, suffering is a constant reminder of the perpetual state of man and the Christian duty to reverse this. Man fell into sin and thus now suffers for this sin. The purpose of a Christian is not just to get people to Heaven...in fact, that's a minor point in Christianity. The purpose of Christianity is to redeem culture in all aspects. When we see suffering we are to do everything we can to stop that suffering. The differences between an athiest and a Christian concerning the suffering of the wolrd are vast, two of which are:

* To the Christian, the only intellectually honest reason for suffering is that sin has entered the world and the reason God allows it is so that we can understand exactly what He is saving us from and so we can appreciate His grace. Alternatively, for the athiest, the only intellectually honest reason for suffering is that through a series of events, survival of the fittest has occured. Even if political circumstances, location, war, a super power harming a third world nation, etc has caused this, it is inevitably just a part of nature and should be of no concern. If anything, the more people die, the more we solve for an overpopulation problem. Suffering is just nature's way of getting rid of the weak.

* To the Christian, suffering will always occur but we must be willing to try to stop it when we see it. No matter who it is, that person is made in the image of God and we have a desire to see His image protected. For the athiest, however, there is no real incentive. Though athiest can be the most compassionate people this world has ever known, there is ultimately no reason behind the compassion. It simply occurs without logic as to why.

Therefore, the problem of suffering in this world does exist...and the most logical explanation and solution rests in the Christian belief.

[Crisor]

i have a question for all of you teeth gnashers and tail chasers. where is the list of things you and your fellow athiests have done for the starving and homeless and downtrodden, you so vehemently try to lay at our (christians) feet.

Your question is a good one and deserves an answer. The fact is is that most of the funds for such efforts go to faith based charaties and come from the government. Secular charaties do not fall under the governments guidelines as "faith based" of course, so very little, if any, money gets sent that way which means that those who would like to do something for our fellow man, cannot. I am hoping that this will change in the future.

Crisor

Edited to add: Here are a few non-religious charities:

The Red Cross If you look on their FAQ page, you will notice that they help people with all religious beliefs and do not consider themselves part of a religious organization.

UNICEF Also not a religious based charity

Doctors without Borders

Oxfam International

Edited May 28, 2006 by Crisor