jamie Posted June 21, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2006 Robert, for the record I see nothing wrong in anything you've presented on Hinn. My last comments had nothing what-so-ever to do with you. Just thought I needed to make that clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted June 21, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 21, 2006 in an earlier post, directed towards me, about binding the tongue of some one speaking falsely, i was told that the Holy Spirit was not my personal genie..... and basiclly where i get the idea about the fact we can do something about those not teaching properly..... in this post, that Rober H posted, it tells how to go about it.... in this instance, the eyes were bound, vice the tongue... the work was not done by Paul, but by the Holy Spirit working through Paul we are also told by Christ Himself, that once we have received the Holy Spirit that we will be used as vessels for the Holy Spirit to work through. we will be doing these things and also things greater then these.... some people wait for the moving of the Holy Spirit, fact is, the Holy Spirit is moving continuously... through out the entire earth at any time, it is up to us to receive the Holy Spirit.... Speaking against false prophets and witchcraft in the bible is nothing knew and the bible oft times names the names of those who promote heresey as well as their errors. Acts 13:8-11 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. I am still waiting for the truth of this to be refuted by scripture. And apothanein kerdos, "Sighing" is not an argument or a very intelligent rebuttle. The bible names name as well as preaching against false doctrine. This is an irrefutable fact. In His word, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 21, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Hello Mike, Paul was an apostle and his words were binding upon the church. These gifts were not for everyone. Mark 16:19-20 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. The false prophets and teachers of TBN cannot bind their critics tongues. The apostles during the foundational period of the chruch had their authority confimed by signs and wonders. There is a reason the book of Acts is called the "Acts of the Apostles". Acts 2:42-43 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. God is not at our beck and call we are supposed to be at His. if what they say is offending you and going against Gods Word, then call upon the Holy Spirit and bind the mans tongue. allowing nothing but the truth to come out. mike This is all that you said in the post. Is it fair to say you cannot bind a man's tongue? Acts 13:8-11 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. The above incident does not provide doctrinal evidence that all Christians have the power to "bind men's tongues and force them to tell nothing but the truth" then Elijah calling down fire from heaven is given to every Christian today. We need to refute false doctrine from the scriptures. Paul was doing the work of an apostle and God was confirming his words with signs following (Mark 16:20). We have the completed scriptures today. That is what we as Christians are to use to refute error. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 21, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Robert, for the record I see nothing wrong in anything you've presented on Hinn. My last comments had nothing what-so-ever to do with you. Just thought I needed to make that clear. I know where you stand. I understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted June 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2006 Rober, you are right, Paul was an apostle.... as far as the Spirit, the Spirit of God is for all man kind, should they choose to receive Him. is what Christ said no longer in effect? didn't Christ tell us that we can and will be used by the Spirit? didnt Paul even write about how it is the same Spirit? and that the gifts are all from this same Spirit? the gift of healing? the gift of knowledge? the gift of Wisdom, discernment, miricles? also the gift of Faith and Tongues, interpretation and prophecy? are not all these from the same Spirit? given to those as the Spirit sees fit? what i was speaking of, was just what Paul did, Paul bound the eyes of the man, for his actions, why not have the tongue bound of those teaching wrong? I was not being sarcastic, i was being realistic. the Power of the Holy Spirit is still availible to all those that believe... the Holy Spirit will use the followers of Christ to do what is needed to be done. we ( the children of God ) have the Authority to call upon Our Father, the Lord God Almighty. and when we become one with the Father, His Will becomes ours, aligning our will with His.... as the Adopted Children of God, we are part of the Royal Family. and we have all the rights and responsibilities ( works both ways, responsibility also ) as the true sons... is calming the sea only for Christ? I do not think so, for Christ Himself told us that we would be doing things even greater.... is raising the dead only for Christ? dont tthink so.... is healing the sick only for the disciples? dont think so..... if one of the Gifts have been removed... then all have.... as it is, none of the Gifts have been removed... all are in effect this day.... and as we draw closer to the end there will be even more people having the Spirit of God fill them ..... anyways, again i am not saying that those teaching falsly are to be left alone, but those that are admonishing them, or "exposing" them need to ensure their hearts are in the right place.... have a good day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 22, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Good morning Mike, Even if the "sign gifts" were available today which you and I do not agree on not everyone would have the power to do miracles, healings, etc. The Holy Spirit is not our servant and at our command. 1 Corinthians 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? The answer is no... Mike you wrote: again i am not saying that those teaching falsly are to be left alone, but those that are admonishing them, or "exposing" them need to ensure their hearts are in the right place.... Warning the sheep from being deceived and pointing out the deceivers who are trying to harm them is a mandate from Christ. I will give those who are exposing the wolves the benefit of the doubt until it is proven other wise. Even if their hearts are not in the right place I would look into the allegations and see for myself if it is true or not. I am not going to worry if the heart of a person who warns me that there is a gang of muggers hiding down the street waiting for people to steal from is "perfect" before God. I find it interesting and sad that many people seem to be more concerned for the wolves then those they prey upon. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. I am going to take Christ's warning to heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGR Posted June 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 8,601 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/16/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/04/1973 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Good morning Mike, Even if the "sign gifts" were available today which you and I do not agree on not everyone would have the power to do miracles, healings, etc. The Holy Spirit is not our servant and at our command. 1 Corinthians 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? The answer is no... Mike you wrote: again i am not saying that those teaching falsly are to be left alone, but those that are admonishing them, or "exposing" them need to ensure their hearts are in the right place.... Warning the sheep from being deceived and pointing out the deceivers who are trying to harm them is a mandate from Christ. I will give those who are exposing the wolves the benefit of the doubt until it is proven other wise. Even if their hearts are not in the right place I would look into the allegations and see for myself if it is true or not. I am not going to worry if the heart of a person who warns me that there is a gang of muggers hiding down the street waiting for people to steal from is "perfect" before God. I find it interesting and sad that many people seem to be more concerned for the wolves then those they prey upon. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. I am going to take Christ's warning to heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted June 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2006 here is a thought to ponder over..... there are millions of sheep..... and a hand full of these wolves.... wouldnt there be less problems if the wolves were removed? kind of like the drug scene.... the dealers are still going strong, and the users are the once being sent up river, to rehab, and the grave.... dealers are arrested and back out on the street before the ink is dried on the reports, out on the street faster then the arresting officers.... the drugs are still pouring out into the streets.... we are warning the victims (the user) that they need help and need rehab and and and.... the dealers (wolves) are still on the prowl.... a never ending battle..... if we take out the dealer, the source of the drugs, then it would slow down.... if we get rid of the wolves we no longer have the issue, fewer people that have to be dealt with..... something I believe we are to do, is to study, study, study.... and remain in prayer continuously..... if a person knows the Word, not just the words, the wolves can not harm them... there is a guy that gets on TV in the morning around here from Arkansas, Ronald may even have heard him talk (there are two of them that switch off from the same chapel) that my step son asked me about, he told me these men do not sound like they are preaching (teaching) correctly... saying that angels do not actually have wings, but more like a craft with wings.... (only one thing that sent up a red flag) and there were other things that he had heard the men say about scripture.... my step son, has only been a Christian about a year, and from May until October, he was burried in the Word except to sleep and eat... he still stays in the Word as much as he can..... by him staying in the Word, he was able to discern this person as a person that was not teaching correctly. Tim host prayer meetings at Shiloh... there are people meeting there almost every day for prayer, a vision coming to pass.... anyways, just felt this needed to be said.... good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rober H Posted June 22, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 331 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1949 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Mike writes something I believe we are to do, is to study, study, study.... and remain in prayer continuously..... if a person knows the Word, not just the words, the wolves can not harm them Exactly, That is what we are saying too. The bible states that we need to warn the sheep about wolves. Those of us who have studied need to warn and exhort those who haven't. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. The wolves cannot be removed if they are not exposed. The problem is that the wolves are being defended, embraced and tolerated. Jesus had a warning for the church of Thyatira. Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols We cannot "sufferest" (tolerate) these men and allow them to continue to seduce Christ's servants. The wolves call those who would expose them neo-pharisees etc. It has obviously been effective in diverting attention from themselves. We have work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted June 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Could someone please help to summarize what the issues are in this thread. I'm having trouble following where there is a disagreement. Or maybe there is no disagreement? The problem is that attacking the person and not the doctrine is not a Biblical way to approach it. Likewise, there is such thing as too obessesed in exposing false doctrine. Such as, when someone comes along and says, "Hey, I agree, but you need to cool down a bit" and that person is then lumped in with Benny Hinn (as Robert did with me), it becomes too much...it becomes a witch hunt. What is wrong with a witch-hunt? But actually pointing out personal and importantly un-repented sin among those claiming Christian leadership IS a biblical way to approach this. The problem is that in the US we have no sense or idea of Christian discipline, thus it seems odd to us. Paul tells us that indeed we are to expose personal sin in Christian leadership, we are to judge those on the inside (not the outside) just as Paul did with those in Corinth, who were puffed up. If TBN is anything it is puffed up! But what do we do in reality? We ignore blatant unrepentant sin from our own, people like Swaggart or Haggee, and get wound up about judging the world outside! First we must began with judgement at the house of the Lord. Pointing out the personal sin of Christian leaders is necessary if they refuse to repent of their sins. Would Swaggart have made any repentant move, if he weren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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