How can a God of love allow stoning as a death penalty ?

[Guest doug_mmm]

Iranian Stoning

Islamic Stoning

People,

I was unfortunate enough to see clips of the activities in Iran where individuals were stoned to death.

It was a brutal cruel and horrific thing to do. I remember at the time thinking that the Iranian government and its supporters who did this were barbarians, etc.

Then I remembered that the Bible recommended stoning for people too !

This has haunted me ever since. I am a Christian , saved by the blood of the lamb, but I just dont see how a God of love can authorise such a horrible death. Why not a quick death by beheading, in the Iranian cases it could takes several minutes before a victim could die and it would be quite painful. Perhaps concussion would blur the senses after a while but how long would that take ? Inaccurately aimed stones could damage the eye/s , nose and other facial structures.

Yes I am a Christian but as I said it haunts me that a God of love could order such a death. Presumably Jesus must have had to approve of this too to prevent discord in the Trinity.

Now understand I dont mean to be blasphemous or disrespectful to God but I want to understand why not a quick death like beheading why this terrible death ? We tell everyone that God is love but are faced with this ? How do we reconcile the two ?

Yours in Christ

Doug

Deuteronomy 22:13-29 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, `I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,' then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate; and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, `I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her; and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel. "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor; because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her. "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.

Stoning for cursing God and the King

1 Kings 21:1-16

Stoning for giving children to Molech

Leviticus 20:1-5

Stoning for being a medium or a wizard

Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

Stoning for breaking the Sabbath

Numbers 15:32-36

Stoning for stubborn and rebellious sons

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Stoning for stealing

Joshua 7:20-26

Stoning of goring animals

Exodus 21:28-32

Stoning for touching Mount Sinai

Exodus 19:10-13

[Floatingaxe]

Iranian Stoning

Islamic Stoning

People,

I was unfortunate enough to see clips of the activities in Iran where individuals were stoned to death.

It was a brutal cruel and horrific thing to do. I remember at the time thinking that the Iranian government and its supporters who did this were barbarians, etc.

Then I remembered that the Bible recommended stoning for people too !

This has haunted me ever since. I am a Christian , saved by the blood of the lamb, but I just dont see how a God of love can authorise such a horrible death. Why not a quick death by beheading, in the Iranian cases it could takes several minutes before a victim could die and it would be quite painful. Perhaps concussion would blur the senses after a while but how long would that take ? Inaccurately aimed stones could damage the eye/s , nose and other facial structures.

Yes I am a Christian but as I said it haunts me that a God of love could order such a death. Presumably Jesus must have had to approve of this too to prevent discord in the Trinity.

Now understand I dont mean to be blasphemous or disrespectful to God but I want to understand why not a quick death like beheading why this terrible death ? We tell everyone that God is love but are faced with this ? How do we reconcile the two ?

Yours in Christ

Doug

Deuteronomy 22:13-29 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her, and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, `I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,' then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate; and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, `I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her; and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him; and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. "If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall purge the evil from Israel. "If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. "But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. But to the young woman you shall do nothing; in the young woman there is no offense punishable by death, for this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor; because he came upon her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her. "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not put her away all his days.

Stoning for cursing God and the King

1 Kings 21:1-16

Stoning for giving children to Molech

Leviticus 20:1-5

Stoning for being a medium or a wizard

Leviticus 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them."

Stoning for breaking the Sabbath

Numbers 15:32-36

Stoning for stubborn and rebellious sons

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Stoning for stealing

Joshua 7:20-26

Stoning of goring animals

Exodus 21:28-32

Stoning for touching Mount Sinai

Exodus 19:10-13

I know it is all so hard on our sensibilities, but God has a requirement for sin, being holy. Hell is a far worse punishment, don't you think? I also cringe at the thought of these inflictions for sin, but then I remember how we have toned down our view of God in this dispensation, being fully acquainted with His mercy and love, and we become forgetful of His wrathful side. I think it is a big mistake that we commit when we do that. I know that we are not subject to punishment as believers because of Christ, but we need to keep in mind that God is restraining His wrath for the end, for the sake of Christ and those who will come to Him.

Blessings

[Leonard]

From what I have read, Islamic stoning requires the use of stones no larger than fist-sized, so it can take a very long time for someone to die. Quite horrific. Although the Bible is not specific, my understanding is that 'he who casts the first stone' under the Hebrew stoning was to take a very large stone, so as to crush the skull of the executed person, causing a speedy death. The community's participation in the stoning afterward was to show their agreement that the evil-doer had merited the death penalty.

Still sounds rather beastly, don't you think? God gave them such elaborate directions for building the Tabernacle; why didn't He give them directions for building a 'gas chamber' and a recipe for hydrogen cyanide gas?

[secondeve]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

[Leonard]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I know you detest Christianity, and are very angry at this 'god' of your own imagination; but where on earth did you get this ridiculous idea from??????

I would be angry at such a 'god' too. How is it you conflate this imaginary monster of yours with the God of Christianity?

[sylvan3]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I know you detest Christianity, and are very angry at this 'god' of your own imagination; but where on earth did you get this ridiculous idea from??????

I would be angry at such a 'god' too. How is it you conflate this imaginary monster of yours with the God of Christianity?

By merely reading the Bible, Leonard! The evidence is abundant! He advocates killing children and showing no mercy! The Bible presents an image of a God who is a monster, sorry.

Even if SecondEve were wrong--and I don't think she is--how could it be "ridiculous" for her to come to her conclusion based on the lunacy that is in that book?

[Observer of dreams]

I am sad for your loss of hearing. The truth is that the ten commandments are what is used to govern the lives of Gods' chilidren. The ten commandments are a way for us to imitate the ultimate love that God has for us. If the atheist reading would please read the new testament you would see the love. I would suggest that you read 1 corinthians 13. I think this book and the book of mathew will show you a very different picture than the one you have created. I have looked at atheism before denying it. I tried atheism, and I was miserable. It wasn't for me, but often is the case that a square will not fit into a round hole. Also the ten commandments are not this "control freak god" way of controlling people. Just think about the commandments themselves.

Do not steal think, "would I want to be stolen from?"

Do not kill, "Would I want someone to kill me?"

Do not lie, "Would I want someone to lie to me?"

Do not commit adultry, "Would I want my wife to cheat on me?"

The list goes on.

If you have an open mind you will at least read them you are always free to choose the path that suites you.

Edited July 13, 2006 by Observer of dreams

[sylvan3]

I am sad for your loss of hearing. The truth is that the ten commandments are what is used to govern the lives of Gods' chilidren. The ten commandments are a way for us to imitate the ultimate love that God has for us. If the atheist reading would please read the new testament you would see the love. I would suggest that you read 1 corinthians 13. I think this book and the book of mathew will show you a very different picture than the one you have created. I have looked at atheism before denying it. I tried atheism, and I was miserable. It wasn't for me, but often is the case that a square will not fit into a round hole. Also the ten commandments are not this "control freak god" way of controlling people. Just think about the commandments themselves.

Do not steal think, "would I want to be stolen from?"

Do not kill, "Would I want someone to kill me?"

Do not lie, "Would I want someone to lie to me?"

Do not commit adultry, "Would I want my wife to cheat on me?"

The list goes on.

If you have an open mind you will at least read them you are always free to choose the path that suites you.

Try this quote:

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all

[pointer]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I know you detest Christianity, and are very angry at this 'god' of your own imagination; but where on earth did you get this ridiculous idea from?????? I would be angry at such a 'god' too. How is it you conflate this imaginary monster of yours with the God of Christianity?

By merely reading the Bible, Leonard! The evidence is abundant! He advocates killing children and showing no mercy!

The killing of orphaned children is merciful- the alternative being slow death by exposure. It is in any case nothing greatly to do with the issue of eternal fate, which is believed to be dependent on choice for those who have not heard the gospel, irrespective of age.

[sylvan3]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

I know you detest Christianity, and are very angry at this 'god' of your own imagination; but where on earth did you get this ridiculous idea from?????? I would be angry at such a 'god' too. How is it you conflate this imaginary monster of yours with the God of Christianity?

By merely reading the Bible, Leonard! The evidence is abundant! He advocates killing children and showing no mercy!

The killing of orphaned children is merciful- the alternative being slow death by exposure. It is in any case nothing greatly to do with the issue of eternal fate, which is believed to be dependent on choice for those who have not heard the gospel, irrespective of age.

First, I couldn't agree less with your statement.

Secondly, read what was said in the verse--It says nothing about mercy. Merely killing, which is bad enough (and possibly what Andrea Yates was thinking when she killed her children after she said God told her to do it), is still different from killing children without mercy.