How can a God of love allow stoning as a death penalty ?

[sylvan3]

To the many posts above:

The God that is portrayed in the Bible is illogical. A perfect deity cannot create an imperfect world. To say that man CHOSE to enter into sin ignores the fact that a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent deity CHOSE to create humans whom he knew would misuse free will. The original CHOICE was from God.

It is impossible to believe the illogical. Your arguments have no logical foundation. The contortions of logic that are required for your beliefs are beyond what many are able to do. My advice to you: Don't strain too hard.

Once again, I must say I realize how comforting it must be for you to have your mind hermetically sealed against the polluting influence of facts. This way you can INVARIABLY arrive back at the conclusions with which you begin! It is the same sort of elaborate 'logical box' which paranoid schizophrenics build around their delusions. It has been hilarious speaking with you, but I'm getting to the age where I no longer tolerate such tom foolery well. So, should you ever gain true sagacity, I won't be hard to find.

Your every question has been answered, and in ways that any reasoning person can say, "Hmmm. That's a good response. I may not accept it, but I'm no longer quite so cock-sure in all my opinions." Yet you show absolutely no evidence of even grasping the argumentations being made to you. I don't think you're stupid; I think you're just pretending to not understand. Frankly you've become predictable and boring...... I'm through talking to phonies.

I am glad that you are deciding to take my advice and not strain too hard. Actually, I have found many of your accusations to be quite applicable to you.

Also, it is interesting that you bring up this issue of paranoid schizophrenia. Yours is the book that talks about 900-year-old men (among other things) that, I guess, I am supposed to accept as truth without being delusional.

It even gets better when you consider all the times that people hear the "voice" of God talking to them in the Bible. It seems to me that we have quite a few people in this world who are paranoid schizophrenics who claim to hear the "voice of God" talking to them. Usually, this clears up with proper medication. Hopefully, they haven't listened to this "voice" telling them to kill, but that happens sometimes, as you well know. I just wonder how they knew, back in Bible days, who the legitimate "voice" of God--that also told people to kill--was. It would seem logical that there would have been a few paranoid schizophrenics around back then that probably heard voices, don't you think?

[EricH]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

[redeemed098]

I am sad for your loss of hearing. The truth is that the ten commandments are what is used to govern the lives of Gods' chilidren. The ten commandments are a way for us to imitate the ultimate love that God has for us. If the atheist reading would please read the new testament you would see the love. I would suggest that you read 1 corinthians 13. I think this book and the book of mathew will show you a very different picture than the one you have created. I have looked at atheism before denying it. I tried atheism, and I was miserable. It wasn't for me, but often is the case that a square will not fit into a round hole. Also the ten commandments are not this "control freak god" way of controlling people. Just think about the commandments themselves.

Do not steal think, "would I want to be stolen from?"

Do not kill, "Would I want someone to kill me?"

Do not lie, "Would I want someone to lie to me?"

Do not commit adultry, "Would I want my wife to cheat on me?"

The list goes on.

If you have an open mind you will at least read them you are always free to choose the path that suites you.

Try this quote:

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

This is from the Bible. This is the Word of God. God is not satisfied with merely removing a problem. He wants to kill "without mercy"--even children. He also wants humans to do it.

This is what turns people to atheism, sorry.

I can only hope that George Bush doesn't listen to voices; he believes this stuff doesn't he?

When a doctor is operating on cancer, should he leave some there so it can grow back.....???? The only way to prevent evil from begetting evil is to remove the seed that produces it....

Your attempts to justify your own sins by condemning God or pretending he doesnt exist, are an act of futility. The Judge is perfectly right..and perfectly Just..He doesnt need your opinion on that......Heres a thought...Ever thought of OBEDIENCE instead of whinging about the consequence of DISobedience..??

It is just like the law BREAKER to turn around and try to blame everything on the lawMAKER......

Time to look with honesty and integrity into your own soul and NOT the soul of others...No one elses sins will ever justify YOURS>

"Unless a man repents he shall perish." The God of the bible doesnt turn people to Atheism....He gives them a glimpse of their own soul and their own heart and forces them to look into a mirror that reveals who they really are in the sight of God...Sinners..

No, the God of the bible doesnt turn people to Atheism...He causes them to go in search of anything that would hide them from the truth. They are accountable for their sins to God whether they like it or not and whether they believe it or not. "The wages of sin is death." That in essence is WHY you are dying.

"but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Regards,

Ben.

Edited July 13, 2006 by redeemed098

[sylvan3]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

[swordbearing1]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

God doesn't worry about being presented with flattery! He is a wrathful, vengeful God and does not render mercy when he punishes sin. Especially in OT times, but now in this "dispensation" of Grace, God restrains His anger and wrath because of the work of the Cross that Jesus has done! He is pretty much delaying His wrath until that day coming.

[sylvan3]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

God doesn't worry about being presented with flattery! He is a wrathful, vengeful God and does not render mercy when he punishes sin. Especially in OT times, but now in this "dispensation" of Grace, God restrains His anger and wrath because of the work of the Cross that Jesus has done! He is pretty much delaying His wrath until that day coming.

Here again, the depiction of the God of the Bible is one of human characteristics (vengeful, he gets angry, he's wrathful, I think he gets tired, too). This comes across as being the product of a human imagination as opposed to a divine, perfect, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient deity. Objective scrutiny reveals this.

[sylvan3]

I am sad for your loss of hearing. The truth is that the ten commandments are what is used to govern the lives of Gods' chilidren. The ten commandments are a way for us to imitate the ultimate love that God has for us. If the atheist reading would please read the new testament you would see the love. I would suggest that you read 1 corinthians 13. I think this book and the book of mathew will show you a very different picture than the one you have created. I have looked at atheism before denying it. I tried atheism, and I was miserable. It wasn't for me, but often is the case that a square will not fit into a round hole. Also the ten commandments are not this "control freak god" way of controlling people. Just think about the commandments themselves.

Do not steal think, "would I want to be stolen from?"

Do not kill, "Would I want someone to kill me?"

Do not lie, "Would I want someone to lie to me?"

Do not commit adultry, "Would I want my wife to cheat on me?"

The list goes on.

If you have an open mind you will at least read them you are always free to choose the path that suites you.

Try this quote:

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all

[Floatingaxe]

I am sad for your loss of hearing. The truth is that the ten commandments are what is used to govern the lives of Gods' chilidren. The ten commandments are a way for us to imitate the ultimate love that God has for us. If the atheist reading would please read the new testament you would see the love. I would suggest that you read 1 corinthians 13. I think this book and the book of mathew will show you a very different picture than the one you have created. I have looked at atheism before denying it. I tried atheism, and I was miserable. It wasn't for me, but often is the case that a square will not fit into a round hole. Also the ten commandments are not this "control freak god" way of controlling people. Just think about the commandments themselves.

Do not steal think, "would I want to be stolen from?"

Do not kill, "Would I want someone to kill me?"

Do not lie, "Would I want someone to lie to me?"

Do not commit adultry, "Would I want my wife to cheat on me?"

The list goes on.

If you have an open mind you will at least read them you are always free to choose the path that suites you.

Try this quote:

(Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all

[Arialia]

When a doctor is operating on cancer, should he leave some there so it can grow back.....???? The only way to prevent evil from begetting evil is to remove the seed that produces it....

Your attempts to justify your own sins by condemning God or pretending he doesnt exist, are an act of futility. The Judge is perfectly right..and perfectly Just..He doesnt need your opinion on that......Heres a thought...Ever thought of OBEDIENCE instead of whinging about the consequence of DISobedience..??

It is just like the law BREAKER to turn around and try to blame everything on the lawMAKER......

Time to look with honesty and integrity into your own soul and NOT the soul of others...No one elses sins will ever justify YOURS>

"Unless a man repents he shall perish." The God of the bible doesnt turn people to Atheism....He gives them a glimpse of their own soul and their own heart and forces them to look into a mirror that reveals who they really are in the sight of God...Sinners..

No, the God of the bible doesnt turn people to Atheism...He causes them to go in search of anything that would hide them from the truth. They are accountable for their sins to God whether they like it or not and whether they believe it or not. "The wages of sin is death." That in essence is WHY you are dying.

"but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Regards,

Ben.

Actually, the God of the Bible does. And believe me, atheists would be able to tell better than Christians.

Also, your point about removing cancer:

How can you compare cancer to little children? "Kill the little children, They are cancer."

[Arthur Durnan]

Let's have no more truculent, out-to-lunch, slapdash signposting by kind individuals who remind me of what Sherman said: "if nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve." With apologies to him: "If I'm responded to, I will not listen much. If I'm answered matter-of-factly, I will not reason." Fifth-grade elementary understandable! Maybe our friend was kicked in the head by a polo pony and amnesia has set in? If one cannot beat 'em, have prosciutto with 'em, right? As Bill Buckly once uttered, "Happy Days Were Here Again!" I love it, I love it, but might it sell in Peoria?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com