How can a God of love allow stoning as a death penalty ?

[CellShade]

(On a side note)

Any chance of changing their status from unbeliever to God haters?

Clearly they know God, but they hate Him.

[redeemed098]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

Did you read the passage in its context and see that it is a prophetic utterance by an angel showing Ezekiel things that must happen? I get the feeling you are not really interested in finding out what the text really says and are not open to using literary techniques that scholars use on all written works. You simply have you mind made up, and are willing to take things out of context to prove your point.

What is it about the Ezekiel passage that make you think it is not a prophecy?????

Read Ezekiel 6:1-2 which is the beginning of the oracle that extends into Ezekiel 10:

And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them

Ezekiel 6:1-2 NASB

He then states the reasons for the terrible things that will befall Israel:

and say, 'Mountains of Israel, listen to the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the ravines and the valleys: "Behold, I Myself am going to bring a sword on you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 "So your altars will become desolate, and your incense altars will be smashed; and I shall make your slain fall in front of your idols.

Ezekiel 6:3-4 NASB

Now, I am open to hearing your view as to why my contention that this is a prophesy is incorrect. Please explain

Whether it is a prophecy or not is not relevant to me. I am questioning the character of God as it is presented in the Bible. There are major contradictions between a perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent deity and the anthropomorphic character that is presented in the Bible. As I have said previously, when one is faced with the decision as to whether this book is inspired by man or a perfect deity, the human influence is overwhelming. It plays like an animated movie created in Hollywood.

The Ezekiel verses were presented with that in mind. Do those verses sound like they are from a perfect deity or something that a human would make up? I see no need whatsoever to have it relate to a context in order to understand that point.

I believe that the Bible is a fairy tale. You may argue context issues as to whether its story requires context for understanding, but I will argue that it is a fairy tale nonetheless.

So you dont believe God exists, you dont believe the bible is the Word of God and yet you clearly bring forth words from a book you dont believe in to justify your already obvious UNbelief...Boy.....!!! I think someone is a little confused.

I would like to show you somethining here....These comments you have made do not in anyway demonstrate how UNbelieving you are in the slightest.

They demonstrate how rebellious you are. It isnt that you dont believe in God..You simply hate him...You are a God Hater. "they will be disobedient, haters of God and not Lovers of the Truth, Insolent, etc etc etc.....The bible speaks of you.

Just for the record there is another scripture in the book that like to use to NOT believe, where it is written...."Repent and turn away from all your offenses then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you haave committed and get a new heart and a new spirit. WHY will you die 'O' House of Israel ??? FOR I TAKE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF ANYONE,declares the sovereign Lord. REPENT AND LIVE". Ezekiel 18:30-32

Miss that bit did you...? The bible is in complete and total and perfect agreement from start to end. The message is simple. He is coming, he is here and he is coming again...Show me TWO atheists that agree perfectly on all points of discussion. Not two single atheists will find agreement in every single point of contention. The bible however is in complete harmony in its message from beginning to end. Written by MANY different men over thousands of years and by men ranging from lowly shepherd boys to sovereign kings.

Call it what you like, you wont change a thing.

Repent and you will experience its truth..

Regards,

Ben.

Edited July 14, 2006 by redeemed098

[secondeve]

So you dont believe God exists, you dont believe the bible is the Word of God and yet you clearly bring forth words from a book you dont believe in to justify your already obvious UNbelief...Boy.....!!! I think someone is a little confused.

If you had never read The Lord of the Rings, how could you possibly comment on what it said?

[botticelli]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

Did you read the passage in its context and see that it is a prophetic utterance by an angel showing Ezekiel things that must happen? I get the feeling you are not really interested in finding out what the text really says and are not open to using literary techniques that scholars use on all written works. You simply have you mind made up, and are willing to take things out of context to prove your point.

What is it about the Ezekiel passage that make you think it is not a prophecy?????

Read Ezekiel 6:1-2 which is the beginning of the oracle that extends into Ezekiel 10:

And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them

Ezekiel 6:1-2 NASB

He then states the reasons for the terrible things that will befall Israel:

and say, 'Mountains of Israel, listen to the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the ravines and the valleys: "Behold, I Myself am going to bring a sword on you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 "So your altars will become desolate, and your incense altars will be smashed; and I shall make your slain fall in front of your idols.

Ezekiel 6:3-4 NASB

Now, I am open to hearing your view as to why my contention that this is a prophesy is incorrect. Please explain

Whether it is a prophecy or not is not relevant to me. I am questioning the character of God as it is presented in the Bible. There are major contradictions between a perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent deity and the anthropomorphic character that is presented in the Bible. As I have said previously, when one is faced with the decision as to whether this book is inspired by man or a perfect deity, the human influence is overwhelming. It plays like an animated movie created in Hollywood.

The Ezekiel verses were presented with that in mind. Do those verses sound like they are from a perfect deity or something that a human would make up? I see no need whatsoever to have it relate to a context in order to understand that point.

I believe that the Bible is a fairy tale. You may argue context issues as to whether its story requires context for understanding, but I will argue that it is a fairy tale nonetheless.

then you have your mind made up and there is no need to continue this conversation

and if ur saying its wrong to kill than is it wrong to kill the killers?

[secondeve]

if ur saying its wrong to kill than is it wrong to kill the killers?

The OT said, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," but the NT says, "turn the other cheek."

[redeemed098]

if ur saying its wrong to kill than is it wrong to kill the killers?

The OT said, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," but the NT says, "turn the other cheek."

Very good...And who said to turn the other cheek eve...??? Jesus did didnt he.....!! What else did he say eve..."Unless a man repents he shall perish."

You seem to like the lessons of Christ eve, but the lessons are no good without the teacher...

The purpose of the gospel is not to learn lessons from the life of Christ....It is to receive LIFE through the DEATH of Christ...

Regards,

Ben

[redeemed098]

So you dont believe God exists, you dont believe the bible is the Word of God and yet you clearly bring forth words from a book you dont believe in to justify your already obvious UNbelief...Boy.....!!! I think someone is a little confused.

If you had never read The Lord of the Rings, how could you possibly comment on what it said?

There is a difference between reading and HEARING....."Faith comes by HEARING" Hearing is the attitude in which you LISTEN....Jesus clearly demonstrated in the parable of the seed and the sower that there are many who hear, but clearly it is when the seed falls on good soil that it takes root and produces good fruit.

Good soil is a heart that is prepared for the sower to sow. Only one out of four in that parable took hold of the Word of God and searched it with a right attitude of hearing..

You see the bible as simply a book....That much is clear already by your comment on Lord of the Rings...The bible lays claim to being the revelation of God himself. God IS his Word therefore the bible is much more than simply a book to read. It is God himself as he cannot be separated from his Word.. He IS his Word. You can try to separate God from his word if you like, but you will only succeed in having lots of bibles but NO God...Even even worse, you can have lots of gods, but NO bible...

Regards,

Ben.

[sylvan3]

Sylvan,

Any response to the Ezekiel passage which you quoted out of context?

My response is that saying that something is being taken out of "context" is a frequent rationalization that I hear when a passage is presented that is not so flattering to the God being presented in the Bible.

The information that is in the passage is that people hear the "voice" of God telling them to kill without mercy. This killing without mercy includes, but is not limited to, children. It is a relevant quote when one considers the stark contrast to the "merciful" God that many would like to believe about the God of the Bible. I don't see where anything either prior to or after that quote mitigates what has been said. It is not just killing (bad enough) but the killing without mercy that is remarkable.

Did you read the passage in its context and see that it is a prophetic utterance by an angel showing Ezekiel things that must happen? I get the feeling you are not really interested in finding out what the text really says and are not open to using literary techniques that scholars use on all written works. You simply have you mind made up, and are willing to take things out of context to prove your point.

What is it about the Ezekiel passage that make you think it is not a prophecy?????

Read Ezekiel 6:1-2 which is the beginning of the oracle that extends into Ezekiel 10:

And the word of the LORD came to me saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them

Ezekiel 6:1-2 NASB

He then states the reasons for the terrible things that will befall Israel:

and say, 'Mountains of Israel, listen to the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, the hills, the ravines and the valleys: "Behold, I Myself am going to bring a sword on you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 "So your altars will become desolate, and your incense altars will be smashed; and I shall make your slain fall in front of your idols.

Ezekiel 6:3-4 NASB

Now, I am open to hearing your view as to why my contention that this is a prophesy is incorrect. Please explain

Whether it is a prophecy or not is not relevant to me. I am questioning the character of God as it is presented in the Bible. There are major contradictions between a perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent deity and the anthropomorphic character that is presented in the Bible. As I have said previously, when one is faced with the decision as to whether this book is inspired by man or a perfect deity, the human influence is overwhelming. It plays like an animated movie created in Hollywood.

The Ezekiel verses were presented with that in mind. Do those verses sound like they are from a perfect deity or something that a human would make up? I see no need whatsoever to have it relate to a context in order to understand that point.

I believe that the Bible is a fairy tale. You may argue context issues as to whether its story requires context for understanding, but I will argue that it is a fairy tale nonetheless.

So you dont believe God exists, you dont believe the bible is the Word of God and yet you clearly bring forth words from a book you dont believe in to justify your already obvious UNbelief...Boy.....!!! I think someone is a little confused.

I would like to show you somethining here....These comments you have made do not in anyway demonstrate how UNbelieving you are in the slightest.

They demonstrate how rebellious you are. It isnt that you dont believe in God..You simply hate him...You are a God Hater. "they will be disobedient, haters of God and not Lovers of the Truth, Insolent, etc etc etc.....The bible speaks of you.

Just for the record there is another scripture in the book that like to use to NOT believe, where it is written...."Repent and turn away from all your offenses then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you haave committed and get a new heart and a new spirit. WHY will you die 'O' House of Israel ??? FOR I TAKE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF ANYONE,declares the sovereign Lord. REPENT AND LIVE". Ezekiel 18:30-32

Miss that bit did you...? The bible is in complete and total and perfect agreement from start to end. The message is simple. He is coming, he is here and he is coming again...Show me TWO atheists that agree perfectly on all points of discussion. Not two single atheists will find agreement in every single point of contention. The bible however is in complete harmony in its message from beginning to end. Written by MANY different men over thousands of years and by men ranging from lowly shepherd boys to sovereign kings.

Call it what you like, you wont change a thing.

Repent and you will experience its truth..

Regards,

Ben.

There is not a shred of truth to the statement that the bible is in complete harmony from beginning to end. It is rife with contradictions. It is also not in harmony with the concept of a perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent deity.

What happens is that apologists keep saying the mantra, "There are no contradictions", in hopes that people start to believe this. Some do. I suppose if one kept hearing the statement that zebras have no stripes they would start to believe that as well.

[sylvan3]

(On a side note)

Any chance of changing their status from unbeliever to God haters?

Clearly they know God, but they hate Him.

Because I don't agree with your concept of God, I am a God-hater? Because I don't believe that 950-year-old men ever existed? Because I don't believe in demons or snakes and donkeys that talk? Because I don't believe that a perfect, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God would use his voice to command people to "kill without mercy". Does it then follow that I hate people, animals, and nature?

You have a very myopic view of the world, and I will agree that I am not real fond of people with myopic views.

Edited July 14, 2006 by sylvan3

[Guest lnj]

I think a better question is, how can anyone reconcile a loving God with one who lets infants or non-Christian children burn for eternity in Hell, because they were too young to accept God or because their parents/circumstances had not yet allowed them to know of the Bible?

SECONDEVE

Not true. Babies and children are with Jesus, God when they die. LNJ