The Folly of the Mass

[Leonard]

OK. I can't remember this whole song, but here goes; Ya'll can sing along to the tune of 'Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious'

SUPER-HYPER-CALVINISTIC-EUCHARISTIC-NOTION

Um diddle dee, Oh um diddle Ay, Oh um diddle dee dee doodle!

Um diddle dee, Oh um diddle Ay, Oh um diddle dee dee doo!

When I was a little boy, about the age of seven,

my daddy told me Jesus wasn't here, He was in Heaven.

So when I took Communion, and ate the bread and wine,

I never got the bodily Christ, but only the divine!

Oh, Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

For a Reformed Calvinist, it's part of their devotion!

If you speak of Real Presence, there will be commotion!

Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

Um diddle dee, Oh um.....(etc)

A Lutheran came into town proclaiming Presence Real;

He said that Jesus' Blood and Body both were in the meal!

And so Communion meal became a holy sacrament,

Effecting now forgiven-ness, which was the meal's intent!

Oh, Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

For a Reformed Calvinist, it's part of their devotion!

If you speak of Real Presence, there will be commotion!

Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

Um diddle dee, Oh um........(etc)

The big 'Left Boot of Fellowship' my old church gave to me!

It seems that Real Presence was just more than they could see!

Although their Hero Calvin clearly taught the Real Presence,

Dispensatinalism is now their churches' essence!

Oh, Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

For a Reformed Calvinist, it's part of their devotion!

If you speak of Real Presence, there will be commotion!

Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

Um diddle dee, Oh um........(etc)

With Faith renewed within me now, I lifted up my face!

The Meal had become now an experience of Grace!

I still partake Communion, but now there is a twist:

Am I 'Gnesio-Lutheran' or 'Crypto-Calvinist'?

Oh, Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

For a Reformed Calvinist, it's part of their devotion!

If you speak of Real Presence, there will be commotion!

Superhypercalvinisticeucharisticnotion!

OH SUPERHYPERCALVINISTICEUCHARISTICNOTION!

[billie]

Hey, that's a catchy little tune.....

[jgb321]

I believe that those Roman Catholics who believe the Eucharist to be the literal body and blood of Christ, are suffering from a religious hallucination, and their belief is something they would not have come to themselves, but rather they have been indoctrinated into believing this dreadful and dangerous folly.

www.excatholicsforchrist.com

Edited August 3, 2006 by jgb321

[ScubaSteve]

I believe that those Roman Catholics who believe the Eucharist to be the literal body and blood of Christ, are suffering from a religious hallucination, and their belief is something they would not have come to themselves, but rather they have been indoctrinated into believing this dreadful and dangerous folly.

www.excatholicsforchrist.com

Who is to say that it isn't though? For even though it doesn't taste like flesh and blood, (I've never eaten flesh but am pretty sure it doesn't taste like the hosts) why can't Jesus transform it into his flesh and blood? For after all, Gods ways are not ours and ours is not to question why.

Edited August 3, 2006 by ScubaSteve

[Floatingaxe]

Why in the world would Jesus do that? He commanded us to remember...that's it. Elaborating as the Catholic church has done actually reduces the meaning, and makes it a mockery.

[Leonard]

Again, I am compelled to point out in John 6, when people understood Jesus to be speaking of literally 'eating His flesh and drinking His blood', they started to LEAVE IN DROVES.

All Jesus had to do was say, "Wait guys! I was just kidding!" Or "Hey; I was only speaking symbolically...." Yet Jesus did nothing of the kind. He remained utterly unapologetic for His statements.

Believe whatever you like. I for one do NOT believe in the Roman doctrine of Transubstantiation, for it is based on Greek categories of logic. I side with the Orthodox who speak of Real Presence, and do not feel obliged to define the exact 'hows' and 'whens' thereof.........

And by the way Floating Axe; do a little study on the Greek word for 'remembrance' here. You will find the meaning is FAR, FAR deeper than the English rendering.

[jgb321]

10 Quick Points

1. Verse 29: Believe He is the Christ in order to be saved (Rom. 10:9.)

2. Verse 41: Unbelieving Jews murmur because He claims to be deity, i.e., came down from Heaven and later on, some of them try to kill Him (John 10:32,33.)

3. Verse 47: Re-affirms faith in Him alone for Salvation (Acts 16:30,31.)

4. Verse 51: The metaphor of Him being the bread of life is synonymous with His flesh and work on the Cross, for it is faith in each of these things that saves a sinners, i.e., His flesh/body hung on the cross (1 Cor. 15:13, 14.)

5. Verse 60: The unbelieving Jews again complain about His requirements of them and others.

6. Verse 61: Jesus finally confronts their moaning, for up till now He has been testing them to see who would stay and who would remain. This is later portrayed when after a 3 year ministry in which tens of thousands have thronged Him and followed His every move, when push came to shove, they all fell away and only 120 were found to have lasted the course in the Upper Room. This is a picture of the very few who will be saved on Judgment Day (Matt. 7:13,14.)

7. Verse 63: Christ makes it crystal clear that His words are only SPIRITUAL, i.e., figurative - the Holy Spirit does the work of regeneration (1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 4:4-6), NEVER human endeavours (Rom. 4:4; Eph. 2:8,9.)

8. Verse 66: Unbelieving Jews depart from Him, because they weren't prepared to be identified with Him in such a personal way.

9. Verse 68: Peter correctly understands that Jesus' words are eternal life, and that faith in His name warrants eternal life, not holy communion (Acts 4:12.)

10: Verse 70: Christ states He knows who are His and one of His chosen 12 is a devil.

In Conclusion, the fact of the matter is whether a person believes in the hypothesis of the bread and wine changing into the literal body and blood of Christ, is immaterial. Because the Bible repeatedly teaches that faith in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is what saves a man from Hell, not church attendance or other activities (Gal. 3:2,3.)

Edited August 3, 2006 by jgb321

[ScubaSteve]

Again, I am compelled to point out in John 6, when people understood Jesus to be speaking of literally 'eating His flesh and drinking His blood', they started to LEAVE IN DROVES.

All Jesus had to do was say, "Wait guys! I was just kidding!" Or "Hey; I was only speaking symbolically...." Yet Jesus did nothing of the kind. He remained utterly unapologetic for His statements.

It's possible that Jesus did that to seperate the devoted from the "cruisers". For following Jesus requires us to take the good along with the bad, there are always going to be things we have to do that we don't like. You wouldn't want people following you who are only in it for the good times, or are able to pick and choose what they want/don't want. If Jesus had reneged on his statement and said that he was only joking, how seriously would the people that left have taking their commitment to him? When something they didn't like or didn't want to do they would of just been able to say "Well you were just kidding then so I'll take it that you're just kidding. It would of ended up as a half hearted commitment that would of fallen apart at the first sign of hardship. And I think I can safely say that no one would want that minor level of commitment.

[Leonard]

So Jesus lied to them??? Come on! The text tells us they were 'offended at His Words,' because they understood them to be conveying real ideas. Jesus ran lots of folks off because they were offended at the truth He told but never because they were offended by the lies He told......... The hermeneutical gymnastics (not to say 'contortions') required by the detractors of Real Presence to reinterpret John 6 are probably the best proof of all that Jesus meant exactly what He said!

[Floatingaxe]

Remembrance = memorial, commemoration.