eric Posted April 12, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Posted by CJ, We have been reconciled unto God through Christ, there will be no God appointed wrath against the believer. The tribulation is God appointed wrath. Peace CJ In several places in the world, sush as Sudan, especially Darfur, Algiers, indonesia, christians are being slaughtered, raped, children massacred and whole villiages being burned to ashes, millions of them. Do you think the tribilation period will be worse than that. You say in the passage above, that the tribulation is God's appointed wrath. Wrong, CJ, God's wrath is poured out after the tribulation, which is mounted by the a/c waging war on the saints. Do you mean to say that the stuff that's going on in the places I've named is appointed by God, who said His children will be protected from HIS wrath. The tribulation and God's wrath are two different issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Posted by CJ, We have been reconciled unto God through Christ, there will be no God appointed wrath against the believer. The tribulation is God appointed wrath. Peace CJ In several places in the world, sush as Sudan, especially Darfur, Algiers, indonesia, christians are being slaughtered, raped, children massacred and whole villiages being burned to ashes, millions of them. Do you think the tribilation period will be worse than that. You say in the passage above, that the tribulation is God's appointed wrath. Wrong, CJ, God's wrath is poured out after the tribulation, which is mounted by the a/c waging war on the saints. Do you mean to say that the stuff that's going on in the places I've named is appointed by God, who said His children will be protected from HIS wrath. The tribulation and God's wrath are two different issues. The atrocities going on in the world today are a mere drop in the bucket compared to the troubles that the tribulation will bring. The tribulation is a period of wrath like none other. That is just the beginning! Armageddon is next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 13, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 13, 2007 From FA. The atrocities going on in the world today are a mere drop in the bucket compared to the troubles that the tribulation will bring. The tribulation is a period of wrath like none other. That is just the beginning! Armageddon is next! Well you go to Nth Africa, and try a tell some child, who witnessed his mother and siblings, raped and their father, chopped into pieces and their homes and villiages burned to ahes that it was just a drop in the bucket. When will you learn that the wrath of God and the tribulation which is caused by the abomination are two different issues. God does not instigate the tribulation, but the Armageddon, you mention, puts an end to it and rids the a/c and his followers from the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted April 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 13, 2007 From FA. The atrocities going on in the world today are a mere drop in the bucket compared to the troubles that the tribulation will bring. The tribulation is a period of wrath like none other. That is just the beginning! Armageddon is next! Well you go to Nth Africa, and try a tell some child, who witnessed his mother and siblings, raped and their father, chopped into pieces and their homes and villiages burned to ahes that it was just a drop in the bucket. When will you learn that the wrath of God and the tribulation which is caused by the abomination are two different issues. God does not instigate the tribulation, but the Armageddon, you mention, puts an end to it and rids the a/c and his followers from the face of the earth. Spotty pockets of atrocities are a cakewalk compared to the wrath of God poured out on the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted April 13, 2007 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted April 13, 2007 You will not find the word rapture in scripture but it does talk about meeting the Lord in the air.. It's a catching away and it's means the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 13, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 13, 2007 FA, please read the following and show me where is says that it is God who gives the order to make war againt the saints, who, btw, have gone with the rapture, so you say. 4And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. It's quite obvious that the power given to the beast, never came from God. v4 makes apoint of saying that the dragon gave the power to the beast. How can the beast make war against the saints, when the saints are whisked away in the rapture.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted April 13, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 13, 2007 It's quite obvious that the power given to the beast, never came from God. v4 makes apoint of saying that the dragon gave the power to the beast. How can the beast make war against the saints, when the saints are whisked away in the rapture.? Thats the problem with the misconception that the church will be raptured out or escape the clutches of the beast. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the church will be raptured as a whole. Jesus told us several times to watch and be ready. Therefore, only those who are ready when it's time for the Bridegroom to come will be making this trip. Matthew 24:36-51 [36]But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. [42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. [43] But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. [44] Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. [45] Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? [46] Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [47] Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. [48] But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; [49] And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; [50] The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, [51] And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This can also be seen in the parble of ten virgins. Matthew 25:1-13 [1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. [2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. [3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. [5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. [6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. [7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. [8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. [9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. [10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. [11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. [12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. [13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted April 16, 2007 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Hi Rollin, first the start of your response. Thats the problem with the misconception that the church will be raptured out or escape the clutches of the beast. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the church will be raptured as a whole. Jesus told us several times to watch and be ready. Therefore, only those who are ready when it's time for the Bridegroom to come will be making this trip. I agree with one point you make, that nowhere in the bible does it say the church will be raptured as a whole., but you try telling some of the dyed-in-wool pre tribbers that. In fact no one has been able to show me a scripture that states categorically, that the saints will be raptured before the tribulation that Jesus mentioned during His ministry. God's wrath shouldn't be used as the tribulation, because His wrath is what cleanses the evil doers from the face of the planet,after the resurrection, which come immediarely after the tribulation when both the living and the dead saints, have received their new bodies. and go to be with the Lord. That's the way I understand the wrath and the time of tribulation. The five foolish virgins is an example of what will happen to christians who are slack and don't abide in the word as stated in Jn.8:31-32. We have to abide in His word if we are to be set free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 No matter what anyone believes, they better darn well be ready when it does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace1479 Posted April 16, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/09/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/20/1968 Share Posted April 16, 2007 No matter what anyone believes, they better darn well be ready when it does! Here I totally agree. I doesn't matter if I believe in the pre-trib rapture and other's doesn't. The main fact is, that I want to be ready, no matter what happens. God's not going to ask us when we get to heaven, what was your views on this or that or how did you interputted His Word, He's going to ask what did we do with His Son Jesus Christ, accepted Him as Lord and Saviour or denied Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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