Homosexuality and Christians

[pennyinabottlecap]

The problem here is you have allowed your emotions to overshadow your judgement. With someone approaching you in such a way, it would be easy for any of us to feel sympathy for them and want to do as you did, but Biblically, you are the one in the wrong, not the church that asked her to leave. If she was in a continuous sinful lifestyle, what they did was right. In 1 Corinthians chapter 5, Paul speaks of sinners in the church that have committed fornication and incest. Here is his council from verses 1 through 5:

1 IT is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

According to your way of thinking, had these sinful people come up to you and cried on your shoulder about the bad treatment they received in the Corinthian Church, you would have gone up the the Apostle Paul and scolded him for his actions. The difference is, that I would imagine Paul would have had an equally strong response back to you. It is not that God hates this woman, but he does hate her sin. If the church allows people to continue to be a part of their fellowship while engaging in such things, it is bound to effect the others in the congregation. I will just have to respectfully disagree with the position you are taking and side with the Pastor of that church.

1 IT is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

i agree. allow me to clarify. The woman has been struggling with homosexuality, not practicing since her conversion, but however, the sinful nature remains. there lies my controversy with the select church. verse 3 speaks of how God has already done the judging, so what i'm trying to say is, who are we to judge? we're not in the position to do so.

doesn't verse 5 speak of giving up the sin, as opposed to the person?

[apothanein kerdos]

The woman has been struggling with homosexuality, not practicing since her conversion, but however, the sinful nature remains. there lies my controversy with the select church.

This changes everything. They should not have kicked her out. Just as a church would not remove a covering alcoholic that has fallen off the wagon, so too a church must not remove a homosexual who is strugglign to avoid this lifestyle but has given into temptation. If this were the case, any men in the church who struggle with heterosexual sins, such as porn, would likewise need to be removed.

[Floatingaxe]

We are called to judge each other in the church--but we can't judge those outside the church--they don't know God. We are "fruit inspectors"!

[pennyinabottlecap]

I think that is bad to push away a homosexual. How can we expect them to ever turn away from that path if they are rejected in the house of God itself?

and if we dont allow God's love to flow to them through us, how are they wrong in thinking God hates them? havent we given that impression? is an apology not owed?

OK Pennyinabottlecap, did your way of doing things lead this woman to stop engaging in homosexual sins, or did it mearly make her feel better about herself?

i believe a combination. i failed to mention this part and for that i apologize, but she's a converted believer who has come out of homosexuality but the temptation is still there. she felt as if the fact that it's still a temptation, God hates her, and after sharing this with the elders, they gave her the "release".

[KeilanS]

i believe a combination. i failed to mention this part and for that i apologize, but she's a converted believer who has come out of homosexuality but the temptation is still there. she felt as if the fact that it's still a temptation, God hates her, and after sharing this with the elders, they gave her the "release".

That definatly makes it a whole different question. Rejecting another believer in the middle of a struggle to stay away from sin is absolutely horrible. I expect that as believers it is our duty to be there for her, not to reject her.

[pennyinabottlecap]

When an unbeliever sins, we expect them to be unaware at best, and we welcome them into the church in order to introduce them to Christ. We befriend them, and love them, and live out our lives before them, and continue as they continue to be led and teachable.

When a Christian chooses to live in sin, and refuses to repent, then the Church has something to say about it. Paul is clear about such things. We are to have nothing to do with them after appropriate warnings. This is a hard task, you can be sure. But it is necessary, in order for them to come to repentence. That is our job as a church. If they don't come to repentence, it is a sad thing thing, but these hard things are necessary in order that the Church not become diluted. One looking from the outside of the Church may consider this unloving, but it is the most loving thing we can do...following the Word in helping one come to repentance.

Paul speaks of Praying for the christian who falls into sin as well! we dont give up on those who lie or curse or take the lords name in vain even though they do it CONSTANTLY, why give up on a homosexual>?

And what about the people caught up in fornication and incest that Paul told to remove from the congregation and turn over to Satan?

1 IT is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

verse 5, deliver such an one unto satan, doesn't it refer to the sin, as opposed to the person?

[billie]

Why would they put her out just for being tempted to do something? That doesn't make sense. And 4 different churches? Something doesn't seem right to me...

[KeilanS]

Why would they put her out just for being tempted to do something? That doesn't make sense. And 4 different churches? Something doesn't seem right to me...

I agree entirely. If churches put people out of a church for being tempted, I would go through hundreds of churchs a day.

[pennyinabottlecap]

Penny...

It's our job as Christians to help people come to repentance. Especially true in the lives of those who say they are believers. But it is by their fruit we know them. Does this woman have any fruit? Has she brought any to Christ? Likely not. So, you could safely assume she is not a true believer. You need to consider her an unbeliever and try to win her to the Lord.

Does she have remorse for her sin? Does she want to turn away from it and follow Christ? If she is not wanting to be led or taught truth, then you need to leave her be, but leave her with the knowledge that you are there for her, and that you love her in the Lord.

yes and i'm sry, i've failed to clarify that she is a converted christian, who came out of homosexuality, but since the temptation is stillthere, and it's a constant struggle, she's still seen as the "lesbian", and was kikd out. it was fairly obvious she felt remorse, but it's a difficult transition going from the fruit of the flesh to the fruit of the spirit. instead of help, she got removed.

[billie]

Why would they put her out just for being tempted to do something? That doesn't make sense. And 4 different churches? Something doesn't seem right to me...

I agree entirely. If churches put people out of a church for being tempted, I would go through hundreds of churchs a day.

Yeah, I think we all would!