MrsSealedEternal Posted August 28, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 474 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/31/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2006 Because even though He knew what would happen, that didn't change His reason for creating us to begin with. He wanted a family, people to love. He didn't need us. The Trinity was in perfect fellowship with itself, but He wanted more. Even though He knew we'd sin, that didn't make Him not love us and want us. He loves us regardless of sin, so that wouldn't have been a deterrent. I found myself wondering why God would go through with it knowing all that would happen too and that is same conclusion I came to. He cannot deny Himself, His love for us. For us to even be capable of that love, we had to have the ability to love or not love as we would or else we would be like the animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribulation Posted August 28, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 142 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2006 (edited) Tribulation: Please look at the post directly before this one. I think I answered both your questions in reply to Anne's Thanks (#87 and #88) dood, It's an interesting point you raise and I understand your confusion. There are some things that God doesn't reveal to us in the Bible - the precise and definative answer that you may be looking for isn't really found in any exact verse of God's Word. I can't drag up any verses that say 'And God knew they would eat of the tree. He put the tree there because....and....' However, when you have studied God's Word in the entireity - I believe He can provide you with understanding of the subject. And that's all I can answer you with - my understanding of God's plans and purpose. I believe the matter revolves around God's desire for us to have a free will. I'll try to break things up a bit - so it's easier to read and reply to, rather than having one big paragraph! 1. The need for free will. If God didn't give us a free will - we could never have sinned in the first place and therefore it wouldn't have mattered if the tree was there or not because God would have control over Adam and Eve - and therefore prevent them from eating of the tree. However, imagine if God had not gave us that free will? We'd just be walking around like zombie's - God's creation would be ultimately pointless. God wants us to worship and glorify him with out hearts - if He had created us like robots - we'd still worship and glorify him but it would be under His command and it wouldn't be with our hearts! So therefore - God had to give us a free will! Agree? 2. Free will at a cost! However - when God gave us his free will - that ultimately allowed us to make decisions for ourself! If we want, we can chose not to be under his control and do our own thing. 3. God's plan So, having given us free will - God knew that we would ultimately chose to sin and therefore, when the devil arrived on the scene at Eden and tempted Eve so that she made the wrong decision - it wouldn't of been a suprise to God. He knew it was going to happen and that's why we have "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." in God's Word. ---- So, why did God plant the tree in the first place - knowing that the devil would tempt them into making the wrong decision? To answer this, I believe we have to draw parallels to our choice of eternity and salvation. I believe the story of the Garden of Eden holds a great deal of symbolism. I believe that the food on the tree of knowledge of good and evil was sin itself - and be eating (or partaking in) sin under the temptation of the serpent (the devil) we 'shalt surely die'. And that's a parallel with our current lives - If we partake in sin (which can be tempted by the devil) then we will die. God gave Adam and Eve another choice in the garden - the tree of Life. (which symbolises salvation) The tree of life wasn't cursed - it was good for food and if they had just ate only from that tree - they could have had life eternal. But with their free will and the aid of Satan, they were tempted into and chose to sin. And that's ultimately our lives. God puts two tree's before us - One will kill us (sin), and we will be slaves to sin therefore we cannot glorify God. The other will give us eternal life (salvation). When we eat of this tree, we will be able to glorify God. He wants us to make the choice of two trees - He wants us to glorify Him according to our own free will. Another verse that ultimately clears up the fact that God did not plant the tree wanting to tempt or test Adam and Eve is James 1:13 - "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:" Edited August 29, 2006 by Tribulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Trib that's an execellent post, And is a better way of explaining the continuation of mine from earlier. What I did was pick some peoples minds for scriptures which reveal to them why they believed they were created, and heres the short list of those: Isaiah chapter 43 verse 7 For I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Ephesians chapter 2 verse 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordaned that we should walk in them. Colossians chapter 1 verse 16 - 17 For by him were all things created that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. and he is before all things and by him all things consist. Revelation chapter 4 verse 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive honour, and power: for thou has created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Jeremiah chapter 29 verse 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Ezekiel chapter 33 verse 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live................. Why did God create man? God created man because God is worthy to receive honour, power and glory and it is for His pleasure we are and were created. We were created by God for Him, to glorify Him, and in doing so we might live in peace and do good works and walk in them. But again that still doesn't answer your question, i know , but i've been thinking, (a dangerous pass time, i know but somebody's got to do it) If God had not created man, He would have committed a great wrong Himself, and we know there is no wrong in God or what He does. For even with that foreknowledge of what Adam and Eve would do and we, their descendants would do, He would have been denying the righteous amongs us the right to life and the choice to love Him. Which when you think of it would have been a selfish act in itself. If God had of not created us then He would have been dictating that the righteous amongst us would have never had the chance to live and love and in turn be loved by God Almighty who created all things. And had He not have done this, well, then.........what would that have said about God?? So as we know God made the decision to go ahead, he knew yes that we would sin, but it wasn't a trap dood, because He had already foreplanned a route of escape for those among us who would choose to live in Him. God Bless you dood, I think that trib has put it in a better way, but I can only say it as I understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsSealedEternal Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 474 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/31/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2006 Great posts Everyone, I don't have a comment..... .... for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 29, 2006 .... for now Love ya, Dood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewA Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 469 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1967 Share Posted August 29, 2006 So, why did God plant the tree in the first place - knowing that the devil would tempt them into making the wrong decision? We know almost nothing of what was happening in the spiritual realm at the time of Adam and the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjrose Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,580 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/13/1960 Share Posted August 29, 2006 He told Adam not to eat it. Adam still ate it. Adam told Eve not to touch it. She chose to listen to the serpent. Lesson I get: people are going to do what they want to do, regardless of how many times they're told, how many different ways, whatever. People who want to obey, do. People who don't, won't. Amen to that! Adam was warned and yet he still did it. It's called Temptation. satan I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ who gives me the authority! Just thought I would throw that in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 923 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/03/1974 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Great posts Everyone, I don't have a comment..... .... for now Please help I think i'm gonna pass out..................what do you mean you have no comment!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Great posts Everyone, I don't have a comment..... .... for now Please help I think i'm gonna pass out..................what do you mean you have no comment!!!!!! Just give him some time, Anne. He'll be back, guns blazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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