Ask the nonbeliever

[billie]

There are no absolutes!

Tell that to a mathematician.

Brother Dave, you're so smart.

[John Lennon]

I'd like to know why Christians are so quick to label one a nonbeliever. Religions are not absolute in the world! There are things known and unknown. We are free to believe or not, and freedom is more powerful than religion.

You're labeled a nonbeliever in Christ here for the purposes of being in this forum. Actually you labeled yourself admitting to not being a Christian.

Jesus said,"I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life." That's absolute, whether you believe it or not.

Ill say it again..You being convinced of this is a matter of YOUR faith- it still does not make it absolute. This "I'm right and everybody else is wrong" gets nowhere! I felt I was clear on this point. If a tree falls in the forest and no one was there to "see" it fall.....Did it fall?

[John Lennon]

Grace to you,

John L.;

There are no absolutes!

Tell that to a mathematician.

Sincerely, you are buying into some Morallly Relativistic teachings.

It's a lie my friend.

What you and I personally think are moral has no bearing on Gods Justice. Neither will the impact be the same on society.

You may think that each man sets his own moral agenda and follows his own guidelines. That's fine I then have to ask, "Who's to Judge between you and I when there is a dispute"?

You might in particular feel that beastiality is Ok and that as long as the animal is for it and consents that it's morally responsible. However when you lay charge to my Cow and harm it and my property in trespass. Who decides where the line is?

Sincerely, I know that's an absurd notion. However when man is left to the devices of his own wicked heart. Robbery becomes virtue and not vice.

God told Cain that murdering his brother due to the result of his own anger was a bad choice which would lead to further death. God told Cain to rule over his anger and the individual choice he was about to make.

Cain ignored God and killed his brother. He was subsequently cursed.

Should we choose the morally equivalent curse or the Blessings and favor of God?

Is it really all relative?

Peace,

Dave

[John Lennon]

Grace to you,

John L.;

There are no absolutes!

Tell that to a mathematician.

Sincerely, you are buying into some Morallly Relativistic teachings.

It's a lie my friend.

What you and I personally think are moral has no bearing on Gods Justice. Neither will the impact be the same on society.

You may think that each man sets his own moral agenda and follows his own guidelines. That's fine I then have to ask, "Who's to Judge between you and I when there is a dispute"?

You might in particular feel that beastiality is Ok and that as long as the animal is for it and consents that it's morally responsible. However when you lay charge to my Cow and harm it and my property in trespass. Who decides where the line is?

Sincerely, I know that's an absurd notion. However when man is left to the devices of his own wicked heart. Robbery becomes virtue and not vice.

God told Cain that murdering his brother due to the result of his own anger was a bad choice which would lead to further death. God told Cain to rule over his anger and the individual choice he was about to make.

Cain ignored God and killed his brother. He was subsequently cursed.

Should we choose the morally equivalent curse or the Blessings and favor of God?

Is it really all relative?

Peace,

Dave

Oh-oh Math! My worse subject in school!!!! Maybe I better get back to you later...Peace to you Brother!

[billie]

it still does not make it absolute. This "I'm right and everybody else is wrong" gets nowhere! I felt I was clear on this point.

So I guess for it to be absolute, you have to say it!

I don't think everybody else is wrong about Jesus, only those who don't believe in Him.

You were clear, just wrong.

I'm curious as to why you're here. Everyone's welcome here, of course, but you seem honestly exasperated that we believe what we do. I'm just wondering what you thought you'd encounter here?

[John Lennon]

wait around for Jesus to come down and save you

Jesus already came down and paid the ultimate price to save you, John, and me. If you don't want His free gift of life eternal, He won't force it on you. The offer always stands, though.

It was a dangerous thing to go around telling people "I am King of Kings"during the height of the Roman empire! From a historical standpoint I believe it got Jesus in hot water and led to his crucifixion. I do not claim to be an expert on the details around Christ's life. I would say a lot of it is a mystery and subject to interpretation and I doubt the bible is an accurate account. Lost in translation over 2000 years..think about it. It may comfort a Christian like you to believe that all his suffering was for you or us as a race that needs salvation thru him, but I think he was a victim under Roman tyranny just as the jews suffered under Hitler. I Do not see his dying as being a gift to me but a tragedy that happened 2000 years ago!

[lypse]

That's interesting. I've never met an atheist with kids. Why do you think that is?

Please don't take this as me being cheeky. I've really been wondering to myself about this. I'm hoping you can help me out.

Well, I know atheists/agnostics who have children, but I'd like to know how many atheists you have met or know.

[billie]

I Do not see his dying as being a gift to me but a tragedy that happened 2000 years ago!

That's too bad. Jesus said no one took His life. He gave it up of His own accord so that we could have life, and have it more abundantly. Peter said,"No, Lord, you mustn't die." Jesus said,"Get behind me, Satan." He knew it must happen this way for our debt to be paid. He didn't see it as a tragedy, but as necessary.

[billie]

I'd like to know how many atheists you have met or know.

Wow, a lot, I wasn't always a Christian, you know.

[secondeve]

I've never met an atheist with kids. Why do you think that is?

Please don't take this as me being cheeky. I've really been wondering to myself about this. I'm hoping you can help me out.

Billie, my parents are athiests. So are my parter's parents, and the parents of *does mental calculation in head* approximately seventeen of my friends that I can think of off the top of my head, though there's probably more who have one athiest parent and one not. I know my grandfather believes in God, but my grandmother doesn't.

Can I hazard a theory as to why you know few athiests with kids? Bearing in mind I might have no idea at all what I'm talking about

If you knew athiests your age from school or through families, the chances were that their parents were Christian, at least nominally. And as you're only two or three years older than me, it makes sense that few - even none - of these athiests would have kids. Something I've had chance to note is that devout Christians, at least in Australia, tend to get married earlier than other people I know (and therefore have kids earlier), because of the nothing-until-marriage attitude. I know or have heard of at least six Christian couples, friends or friends of friends, who've gotten married between eighteen and twenty-one, and a few more in the same age bracket who are engaged. My guess is that there's a lot more incentive for marriage if you've pledged not to hold hands or kiss (as has happened in three of said cases) until you've tied the knot.

So. Point being, it seems like you'd know a lot of other Christian mothers or parents your age, but no athiests in the same age bracket who are - and these athiests probably have Christian parents. Does that sound right, or am I way off the mark?