Where can I find early Christian history?

[pointer]

Luther was a giant in bringing the Church closer to Christ.

Perhaps a dwarf who saved a cult.

[Guest godgivesall4us]

i think it would be better said, from luthers own writings, that luther tried to save something, only he caused far more division and confusion instead of clarity and unity.

I guess the fruits are evident, even in his own words. There are as many divisions as there are heads in the church now.

It seems the devil had a very cunning and attractive trick in mind when placing luther in the position he was in. That is, if Christ spoke against dissenters and disunity so strongly, something that causes more dissenters and more disunity cannot be of god, especially if the diunity never ends, if it just keeps splitting. It reminds me of what the muslims do since they have no other authority than God and the book, and their own interpretation of that book claiming god is leading them. The sound exactly like people who preach that the bible alone(and God) are there only authority, and leader.

When in fact, after reading the bible now 3.5 times, I see that there was a legislative and authoritative disciplining church there that Christ gave us, and from what ignatius and clement have said, it seemed to be one in mind and teaching etc....

certainly luther did not bring this, he brought the opposite, disunity and chaos. these are the signs of satan, not of god.

although the cake looks very appealing with its beautiful frosting, the worms crawling around underneath al of that seeming sweet frosting are poisonous.

at least that is what I have found in the medusa church. I call it that because it claims to follow Christ and be led by Him, yet all of these so called "bible" churches I have been going to are teaching contradicting things, and therefore claiming that Christ not only has more than one head, but more than one body and that He contradicts himself and thats okay somehow.

That is rediculous. It is like saying that 1+1=2 and that 1+1=3

it is impossible. there is but One Truth. And I am going to find it, without the false teachings of contemperary men.

[Pax]

i think it would be better said, from luthers own writings, that luther tried to save something, only he caused far more division and confusion instead of clarity and unity.

I guess the fruits are evident, even in his own words. There are as many divisions as there are heads in the church now.

It seems the devil had a very cunning and attractive trick in mind when placing luther in the position he was in. That is, if Christ spoke against dissenters and disunity so strongly, something that causes more dissenters and more disunity cannot be of god, especially if the diunity never ends, if it just keeps splitting. It reminds me of what the muslims do since they have no other authority than God and the book, and their own interpretation of that book claiming god is leading them. The sound exactly like people who preach that the bible alone(and God) are there only authority, and leader.

When in fact, after reading the bible now 3.5 times, I see that there was a legislative and authoritative disciplining church there that Christ gave us, and from what ignatius and clement have said, it seemed to be one in mind and teaching etc....

certainly luther did not bring this, he brought the opposite, disunity and chaos. these are the signs of satan, not of god.

although the cake looks very appealing with its beautiful frosting, the worms crawling around underneath al of that seeming sweet frosting are poisonous.

at least that is what I have found in the medusa church. I call it that because it claims to follow Christ and be led by Him, yet all of these so called "bible" churches I have been going to are teaching contradicting things, and therefore claiming that Christ not only has more than one head, but more than one body and that He contradicts himself and thats okay somehow.

That is rediculous. It is like saying that 1+1=2 and that 1+1=3

it is impossible. there is but One Truth. And I am going to find it, without the false teachings of contemperary men.

[Pax]

Luther was a giant in bringing the Church closer to Christ.

Perhaps a dwarf who saved a cult.

Pointer with comments like this, you will never sway a person to your beliefs.

[Smalcald]

It is indeed messy.

But I would just ask that Christians be secure and at peace with what you follow, confess and believe. My study had led me to Luther and his confessions as being the most accurate guide to all of scripture, you may find that your study leads you to the Roman Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church which also claims an historical succession to Peter.

One cannot look at the reformation and indeed the division it eventually wrought and not realize that there was a tremendous cost to the reformation. Luther himself would be shocked to see the division, which exists today. Some of his strongest words were against these people.

But in the end God did allow it, I don't think we have multiple truth, we have a bunch of sinful humans who argue. So I believe the costs of the reformation were worth the benefits. There may come a day when we do become one unified Church with only one doctrine.

[billie]

Would you prefer the false teachings of long-dead men, Godgives?

The One Truth that you speak of can only be found in One Place: The Word of God, Written and Living. Men are human and fallible. I'm instantly distrustful of a religious leader who claims he "knows it all", or "has it all right", because there's only One who does and that's Jesus. Paul said we see as through a darkened window. How can we get it all right if we're seeing through a darkened window?

The Church is the Body of Christ, all believers, past, present, and future. If you're looking for a building in which there is a man who teaches nothing but truth, you won't find it. No human being has all truth, only Jesus. We won't have it until we're with Him. What we do have that is inerrent is the Bible and the Holy Spirit. We can ask for Holy Spirit's leading as to what fellowship He wants us in.

There will always be disagreements in the Church, because of the darkened window, but one day we'll be with the Lord, and know all. Until then, we have to trust His leading, not a human, fallible man.

[pointer]

Luther was a giant in bringing the Church closer to Christ.

Perhaps a dwarf who saved a cult.

Pointer with comments like this, you will never sway a person to your beliefs.

I don't think I need to.

[Pax]

Luther was a giant in bringing the Church closer to Christ.

Perhaps a dwarf who saved a cult.

Pointer with comments like this, you will never sway a person to your beliefs.

I don't think I need to.

Pointer do you believe in Predestination?

[pointer]

Luther was a giant in bringing the Church closer to Christ.

Perhaps a dwarf who saved a cult.

Pointer with comments like this, you will never sway a person to your beliefs.

I don't think I need to.

Pointer do you believe in Predestination?

I believe in correct Engish usage.

[Pax]

Luther was a giant in bringing the Church closer to Christ.

Perhaps a dwarf who saved a cult.

Pointer with comments like this, you will never sway a person to your beliefs.

I don't think I need to.

Pointer do you believe in Predestination?

I believe in correct Engish usage.

What you don't understand what Predestination is?