Where can I find early Christian history?

[Guest Stone]

The truth is found in the word of God from which the church derives, not the other way round. Christians should go to church to fellowship with one another and experience God's presence as a body of believers, rather than to follow a particular church's curriculum. In my opinion, the pastor isn't there to tell you what to believe (because our own convictions should determine how we understand the bible) but to challenge our understanding and get us thinking. A thinking Christian is more likely to receive new revelations from the Word and grow in faith than one who says: I've read the Bible several times and there's nothing new you can teach me.

I was at a conference 2 weeks ago with Dr Miles Munroe who spoke excellently. Most things he said I agreed with but some things I didn't. But overall, he really inspired my thinking. At the end of the day, what I believe will be determined by what the Holy spirit reveals to me in prayer. I expect it to be the same for others who were at the conference.

All Christian churches will agree on most subjects in the Bible, but those minor contradictions (as long as it isn't a result of rebelion, but genuine understanding of the Word) provoke a greater passion for the Word. As long as it's not a threat to our salvation, it's not a problem.

Emeka

www.stonebuiltproductions.com

I have been a Christian for about 14 years now. I have attended many churches after having the rude awakening that everyone doesn't believe the same thing. I went to many churches that preach from scripture alone and they all say that God is leading them, and yet they all have differing interpretation of scripture and it is frustrating.

How can there be two or three or four totally contradicting positions on the same exact subject in scripture? And who is correct? And who is the judge of who is correct? My goodness, didn't Jesus promise his ministers, the apostles that He would lead them into ALL Truth? ANd didn't he pray the night before he was betrayed by Judas that they remain One as He and the Father are one? jn 17:17-23

And aren't He and the Father perfectly one? I was reading in John and it says There shall be one fold and one shepherd. jn 10:16

I was reading in eph 4:3-6 one Lord one Faith etc... I was reading in romans 16 and it says to avoid those who created division(dissentions).vs17

I was reading in 1 cor 1:10 and it says that there be no divisions among you.

I was reading in 1 cor 12:13 and it says in one Spirit we were baptized into one body, does Christ have more than one body with contradicting teaching? wouldn't that mean he contradicts himself if there are contradicting teaching? My pastors have said again and again, "we look to scripture" when i ask them these questions. But it seems the more I see these men look to scripture, the more answers we get, and they almost all contradict each other. Can this be God? and again, I ask my pastor, "who is the judge of which interpretation is correct"? and they say that it isn't important, God is leading us, or they say that their interpretation is correct, but how can I believe that when many many other pastors with differing views of scripture say it is correct?

It just seems to me that Jesus made it clear that there is one faith, and one body with the same solid teaching and that we are to avoid dissenters and divisions. It seems that division is all I can see in the churches. I have gone to four churches that divided while I went to them. whew! this is frustrating.

Can't we see some history to see what the first centuries of christians believed to see what was being taught according to scripture? please help!

thank you,

godgivesall4us

[Pax]

The truth is found in the word of God from which the church derives, not the other way round. Christians should go to church to fellowship with one another and experience God's presence as a body of believers, rather than to follow a particular church's curriculum. In my opinion, the pastor isn't there to tell you what to believe (because our own convictions should determine how we understand the bible) but to challenge our understanding and get us thinking. A thinking Christian is more likely to receive new revelations from the Word and grow in faith than one who says: I've read the Bible several times and there's nothing new you can teach me.

I was at a conference 2 weeks ago with Dr Miles Munroe who spoke excellently. Most things he said I agreed with but some things I didn't. But overall, he really inspired my thinking. At the end of the day, what I believe will be determined by what the Holy spirit reveals to me in prayer. I expect it to be the same for others who were at the conference.

All Christian churches will agree on most subjects in the Bible, but those minor contradictions (as long as it isn't a result of rebelion, but genuine understanding of the Word) provoke a greater passion for the Word. As long as it's not a threat to our salvation, it's not a problem.

Emeka

www.stonebuiltproductions.com

I have been a Christian for about 14 years now. I have attended many churches after having the rude awakening that everyone doesn't believe the same thing. I went to many churches that preach from scripture alone and they all say that God is leading them, and yet they all have differing interpretation of scripture and it is frustrating.

How can there be two or three or four totally contradicting positions on the same exact subject in scripture? And who is correct? And who is the judge of who is correct? My goodness, didn't Jesus promise his ministers, the apostles that He would lead them into ALL Truth? ANd didn't he pray the night before he was betrayed by Judas that they remain One as He and the Father are one? jn 17:17-23

And aren't He and the Father perfectly one? I was reading in John and it says There shall be one fold and one shepherd. jn 10:16

I was reading in eph 4:3-6 one Lord one Faith etc... I was reading in romans 16 and it says to avoid those who created division(dissentions).vs17

I was reading in 1 cor 1:10 and it says that there be no divisions among you.

I was reading in 1 cor 12:13 and it says in one Spirit we were baptized into one body, does Christ have more than one body with contradicting teaching? wouldn't that mean he contradicts himself if there are contradicting teaching? My pastors have said again and again, "we look to scripture" when i ask them these questions. But it seems the more I see these men look to scripture, the more answers we get, and they almost all contradict each other. Can this be God? and again, I ask my pastor, "who is the judge of which interpretation is correct"? and they say that it isn't important, God is leading us, or they say that their interpretation is correct, but how can I believe that when many many other pastors with differing views of scripture say it is correct?

It just seems to me that Jesus made it clear that there is one faith, and one body with the same solid teaching and that we are to avoid dissenters and divisions. It seems that division is all I can see in the churches. I have gone to four churches that divided while I went to them. whew! this is frustrating.

Can't we see some history to see what the first centuries of christians believed to see what was being taught according to scripture? please help!

thank you,

godgivesall4us

Stone I would respectfully disagree with most of what you wrote. Of course the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God, but there must be some guidance when interpreting scripture. If we use your logic each person is their own theologian. Is there any wonder why there is 28,000 Christian denominations. I would also argue, who is going to know the fullness of the truth if you have all these people interpreting scripture differently. I would also disagree that all these Christian denominations have minor contradictions of the word. We have Churches now that are splitting down the middle over such topics as homosexuality. Some are splitting over Once Saved Always Saved. Others over the rapture. The list goes on and on and people are scratching their heads saying, hey I can believe in pretty much believe whatever I want.

[pointer]

I guess if we are throwing out book titles I will put my two cents in. I would start with a book titled "Church History" by Fr. John Laux, M.A. There is another book out there called "Early Christian Writings" The Apostolic Fathers. Published by Penguin Books. You will have the epistles of Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Diognetus, Barnabas, and The Didache. Then you can see for yourselves how the early Church looked.

Or how Paul's 'grievous wolves' looked.

[Guest godgivesall4us]

Pointer, why don't you tell me which writers from the first few centuries you like and show me their take on the scriptures and their interpretation of it.

As I have written at least twice before (iirc), there is no-one from the end of Acts until Wyclif who has represented the church. I recommend for historical purposes the reading of Wyclif's writings, though not as Scripture, of course. Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress is a later development that has yet to be surpassed, I think. Both are of spiritual value, imv.

There is one small but revealing slice from the 1st or 2nd century Didache which I think is relevant for those who value Ignatius. The Didache was undiscovered until the 19th century, and one wonders why it went out of circulation. It may have been because of these few words:

'Elect for yourselves bishops and helpers worthy of the Lord.'

The word 'elect' and the plural 'bishops' should be noted.

pointer. I am saddened by your thought on this subject. To say that we don't have a concise amount of information in these centuries is rediculous to me. After all, if books have been writtn concerning emperors, kings, the divorce of henry VIII of which the church still has all the original documentation from what i have read, there certainly must be credible evidence from the end of the first century forward. It sounds to me like because all of the information may have a catholic lean or perspective, you denounce it in dibelief that this is what was truly being taught at the time. I am not sayin that all of the information is that, but you seem to totally denounce it and since you denounce it, I am assuming you have only found documentation that supports a much later idea of what Christianity is or should be. I apologise if I am incorrect in my assumption, but I must do further research into the matter. So far, ignatius has said nothing that opposes my views and beliefs concerning the scriptures whatsoever. I will then read the writings of clement of Rome and decide what he has to offer. After all, it seems he was a bishop in the line of peter, whatever that really means and must have something to offer that many profited from.

peace, godgivesall4us

[Guest godgivesall4us]

if foxes book of maryrs only covers what the church did that was wrong, which from my reading of it so far, it does, i must then go back further and read as much information available to mankind regarding the teachings of the church in the 1400 years before the reformation to make a nonbiased conclusion of what Christianity was before the protestant idea of it. It seems to me that the protestant idea has caused more confusion concerning scripture and its interpretation, at least from my experienc ein the several protestant Bible churches I have attended.

I will read the info and make an unbiased judgement without any contemporary thought on the matter.

That is what a true skeptic does. Anything preconceived is propoganda in my book.

Edited September 22, 2006 by godgivesall4us

[pointer]

Stone I would respectfully disagree with most of what you wrote. Of course the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God, but there must be some guidance when interpreting scripture.

Who is going to provide that? Not people who make empty claims to be in succession from the apostles, that is absolutely certain.

[Guest godgivesall4us]

if foxes book of maryrs only covers what the church did that was wrong, which from my reading of it so far, it does, i must then go back further and read as much information available to mankind regarding the teachings of the church in the 1400 years before the reformation to make a nonbiased conclusion of what Christianity was before the protestant idea of it. It seems to me that the protestant idea has caused more confusion concerning scripture and its interpretation, at least from my experienc ein the several protestant Bible churches I have attended.

I will read the info and make an unbiased judgement without any contemporary thought on the matter.

That is what a true skeptic does. Anything preconceived is propoganda in my book.

after all, Jesus said that the weeds would grow along with the wheat until harvest, and hterefore the amount of wrongs done by memebers of a church do not make the entire body bad.

If i have cancer in my intestines, that doesn't make my entire body bad, I can still do good. Didn't Jesus show us this with judas and peter among only twelve hand picked ministers of the faith? That a deficit of about 12% thats huge.

yet peter repented and was of great sevice to the church and Christ its head, right?

Just because men within a church sin gravely, doesn't mean the doctrine they taught was false, it just means that men sin while claiming to be Christian.

Edited September 22, 2006 by godgivesall4us

[pointer]

So far, ignatius has said nothing that opposes my views and beliefs concerning the scriptures whatsoever.

What is there in his letters that you think is of value but not in Scripture?

[Pax]

if foxes book of maryrs only covers what the church did that was wrong, which from my reading of it so far, it does, i must then go back further and read as much information available to mankind regarding the teachings of the church in the 1400 years before the reformation to make a nonbiased conclusion of what Christianity was before the protestant idea of it. It seems to me that the protestant idea has caused more confusion concerning scripture and its interpretation, at least from my experienc ein the several protestant Bible churches I have attended.

I will read the info and make an unbiased judgement without any contemporary thought on the matter.

That is what a true skeptic does. Anything preconceived is propoganda in my book.

You've got it figured out...

[Guest godgivesall4us]

So far, ignatius has said nothing that opposes my views and beliefs concerning the scriptures whatsoever.

What is there in his letters that you think is of value but not in Scripture?

what is there that any man has said from the pulpit that we think is of value but not in scripture?

how about do not use contraception?

I agree with that and it isn't explicitly in scripture, it is a life giving teaching that agrees with God who is life himself and opposes anything that stops or hinders life.

there are many things not in scripture that are life giving and profitable.

That doesn't mean that scripture isn't necessary, it just means that I believe things are taught by God outside of scripture that agree with it but are not explicitly within it.