At last - I found it!

[buckthesystem]

I had been following the "anti" campaign to the proposed UK ID card for a while (the legislation has been passed btw, but this in itself doesn't mean much) and I have read of more and more draconian "ID" schemes throughout the world. However, I was beginning to think that there was little if any opposition to "Real ID" in America, and I found it really depressing that so many Americans seemed to have embraced all these strange ideas that have emerged since "9.11".

But now, at least there is hope:

http://www.hisholychurch.net/blog.asp

(I just hope that people will read this site before condemning it).

[LadyRaven]

I had been following the "anti" campaign to the proposed UK ID card for a while (the legislation has been passed btw, but this in itself doesn't mean much) and I have read of more and more draconian "ID" schemes throughout the world. However, I was beginning to think that there was little if any opposition to "Real ID" in America, and I found it really depressing that so many Americans seemed to have embraced all these strange ideas that have emerged since "9.11".

But now, at least there is hope:

http://www.hisholychurch.net/blog.asp

(I just hope that people will read this site before condemning it).

Well, I disagree with what I perceive as the end times view of the church and such, but insomuch as it teaches people that they can be free of this I applaud them.

People just sit back and think that it's inevitable that the government take over their lives for one reason or another and I'm sorry but this is wrong.

[darkest_red]

I never got Labour's argument that ID cards will help prevent terrorism- the guys that blew up the Underground were all British. Their ID cards would have said that same.

[buckthesystem]

I never got Labour's argument that ID cards will help prevent terrorism- the guys that blew up the Underground were all British. Their ID cards would have said that same.

I gather that they stopped pushing the "prevent terrorism" barrow long ago when the idea was so utterly ridiculed. Then after the 7.7 scam, Sir Ian Blair (the minister of police I think) made a speech admitting that id cards would have made no difference to that incident, then there was Stella Rimmington's speech (she is the retired head of British intelligence, or something like that) totally rubbishing the idea that id cards could help to prevent terrorism and saying that they might actually aid in the successful perpetration of terrorist acts, the UK government came up with "preventing id theft".

"Preventing id theft" is now their latest excuse, and yet not long ago it was "to be used as an enablement card to gain 'public services and to eliminate welfare fraud". They dropped this idea when it was pointed out that the cost of the id card scheme was FAR in excess of any amount of money that stood to be "saved" from "welfare fraud". Then it was pointed out that most welfare fraud occurred because people exaggerated or fabricated their circumstances, not their identity, and government couldn't come up with a good counter-claim to this.

When the weird theory of "id cards to protect identity theft" is finally and absolutely ridiculed by the fact that id cards will make "identity theft" far easier and far more drastic, government will come up with another "excuse".

Funny how as fast as Tony's lot can come up excuses for id cards they are debunked just as quickly.

Afterall, thinking of "id theft", the id scheme that UK is pushing is kind of like having one key for your car, house, computer, bank account, office building or work station, any private clubs, churches, social activities etc. but when lost if the key is metal you can change the locks and replace it. With biometric id (which UK is pushing) you would have to get new eyes, fingers, face measurements etc.

[buckthesystem]

I am a little disappointed here, this topic has been up since last night and drawn a lot of attention, but hardly any replies. This is one of the most important issues facing Christians this century.

Doesn't anybody care about it. It has been stated over and over again that nobody, but perhaps governments, will gain anything at all out of "Real id" or any of the other id card systems being forced on the people of the world.

[apothanein kerdos]

I think the American situation is a bit different in that we have quite a bit of illegal immigrants...thus if ID cards were needed it would be much easier to identify who was a citizen and who wasn't.

However, I oppose them because they really serve no purpose other than that.

[buckthesystem]

I think the American situation is a bit different in that we have quite a bit of illegal immigrants...thus if ID cards were needed it would be much easier to identify who was a citizen and who wasn't.

However, I oppose them because they really serve no purpose other than that.

And how will it prevent illegal immigrants coming into the US? Every time someone comes up with "new technology" someone else comes up, very soon, with a way to hack into the database, duplicate it, clone it, fake it, what ever. I'm sure it won't be long until illegal immigrants have real id cards too.

They have had id cards in France (for instance) for ages and they are soon changing the law to include "compulsory carriage", yet France still has a massive illegal immigrant problem.

There are very few id card schemes more draconian than the one in the Netherlands, yet there is a huge illegal immigrant problem there.

Why do you think this will work in the US when it hasn't worked anywhere else. (By "work" I mean do something else other than to make the people feel branded slaves or criminals)

[Naziyr]

Lol ID systems are widely being rejected by fundamentalist Christian movements everywhere. They see it as the "mark of the beast", but this is false. No one will be tricked into taking the mark. They will know FULL WELL what they are doing when they take the mark.

Shalom

[apothanein kerdos]

I think the American situation is a bit different in that we have quite a bit of illegal immigrants...thus if ID cards were needed it would be much easier to identify who was a citizen and who wasn't.

However, I oppose them because they really serve no purpose other than that.

And how will it prevent illegal immigrants coming into the US? Every time someone comes up with "new technology" someone else comes up, very soon, with a way to hack into the database, duplicate it, clone it, fake it, what ever. I'm sure it won't be long until illegal immigrants have real id cards too.

They have had id cards in France (for instance) for ages and they are soon changing the law to include "compulsory carriage", yet France still has a massive illegal immigrant problem.

There are very few id card schemes more draconian than the one in the Netherlands, yet there is a huge illegal immigrant problem there.

Why do you think this will work in the US when it hasn't worked anywhere else. (By "work" I mean do something else other than to make the people feel branded slaves or criminals)

That's the thing, I don't think it will work in the US. I was saying the only plausible argument would be for illegal immigration, but it isn't all that plausible.

[AndrewA]

I think people are just a little bit paranoid about The Beast and his mark, Spot the Antichrist is a popular hobby, every decade spawns a number of likely candidates, but as they die or fade away into nothing we choose new targets. Same goes for this paranoia over the Beasts mark. I remember a while back a group of right wing Christians urged people to boycott a certain financial institution because they used the prefix 666 on most account numbers. Many people were convinced that this was going to be the mark of the Beast.

Good News though! We are given more than enough information to identify The Beast , therefore we will fully well know and left in no doubt when its time to take his mark and what it is. It is true that any national or regional ID card, such as whole of the EU having to have a uniform ID card, could be the model and for runner of the mark that The Beast will use on whole of the world, but until the Beast appears you have nothing to worry about.

I wonder if it is possible that we could all be sucked in, one day its just a national ID that sits gathering dust in our wallets and purses, a year later you suddenly have to produce it to buy or do anything within your country. Even if this happened this still isn’t the beast mark, however it wouldn’t take much to expand, implement and continue this under a new world order single government. Certainly getting used to having compulsory ID on a national level can be used as conditioning tool so the world will simply accept the Beasts mark as hey its just simply a universal ID to replace the National ID.

AT the moment all these protests about national ID cards are simply a civil rights issue rather than a Biblical issue. We can not stop the inevitable. IF we do find that a compulsory ID card eventually ends up being part of a one world government and is therefore used as the Beasts mark then you can simply destroy it, assuming we are all around to see The Beast.

Edited September 30, 2006 by AndrewA