How old is your church?

[Guest Angeledei]

A.D. 375 - Worship of saints and angels

Catholics do not WORSHIP saints or Our Lady. We honor them. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Try getting a clue and actually learning what the Catholic Church really teaches.

YOUR DATES ARE COMPLETELEY WRONG AND SINCE YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO KNOW ANYWAY, I WILL IGNORE THE REST.....

[jesusislord]

AS I GAVE IN AN EARLIER THREAD BUT GOT NOT ANSWERS THERE EITHER

THEY CAME FROM CONTENDER MINISTRIES

[THAT DOES NOT CHANE THE FACT WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THESE THINGS. PLEASE.......... LIKE I SAID U SHOW ME THE BIBLICAL BASIS OF THEM . PLEASE

/b]

[Ovedya]

Therefore, I would ask you a few follow-up questions. Feel free to answer as simply or as detailed as you please:

1) Does the RCC wield supreme power over it's subjects (Or, the faithful, as you you call them.) with regard to faith, morals, and Biblical interpretation/ teaching?

2) If yes, are the Catholic faithful required to follow those teachings or mandates in order to achieve complete salvation?

3) If no, please explain those areas in which the Catholic fatihful are free to practice their faith outside the realm of Catholic ritual, subjectively chose their own moral direction, and interpret the Bible for themselves and determine proper Biblical teaching.

G-M

Again, I will answer your questions in detail for you. GO to the debate board as I am sure you don't want another huge debate here....

Catholic-Protestant debate board

Give me a little bit, as I have a lot from the other poster as well!!! LOL

PS- I am "OremusMaterDei" on the debate board. Hope you don't mind if I paste your questions over there.

Maybe you could just e-mail me your responses. I really don't have a lot of time for two boards right now.

[Guest Angeledei]

Hhhhmmmmmm jesusislord -

Went to that site and they have Catholicism listed under "cult" so needless to say - I am not even going to address your errors because they are steeped in anti-Catholicism and from my years of experience in apologetics, people like you don't want to know truth.

All you want to do is push your errors. So that's fine. Sit in darkness. I will pray the Light will come upon you, because you are so lost my friend.

[Douay]

THAT DOES NOT CHANE THE FACT WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THESE THINGS. PLEASE.......... LIKE I SAID U SHOW ME THE BIBLICAL BASIS OF THEM . PLEASE

Look, why don't you stop posting if this is THE ONLY THING YOU ARE GOING TO POST. How many times does it have to be spelled out for you? Put the bottle down so you can see clearly, or stop typing.

Douay

[Douay]

No, on second thought don't worry about it, I'll post for you from now on, how about that?

Deal?

Douay

[Douay]

No, on second thought don't worry about it, I'll post for you from now on, how about that?

Deal?

Douay

DATS NOT IN DER BIBLE

[Guest Angeledei]

Maybe you could just e-mail me your responses. I really don't have a lot of time for two boards right now.

Your answer can be found:

Answer to god-man questions

[sagz4Christ]

Didn't think you were interested in the truth.

You are biased and not interested in Truth.

All you want is your little closed in world with your anti-Catholic sentiments and you do not care to know what is truth and what is deception.

I will not bother with your questions on the debate board unless you really want to KNOW the truth.

I can see right through ou and it's phoney.

By the way - the dates you have in front of all the "questions" are in no way correct so why don't you have yourself a little history lesson.

I remember asking you to show love. Just as you think my brother in Christ is "biased and not interested in Truth," so we too think the same thing.

As we both know this cannot be so, why not start trying to find an agreeable "common ground."

I asked you not to post some article showing that everyone not in the RCC is not saved. That flies in the face of every believer here. And millions all over the world. It offends me when you...who does not even know me, OR my walk with the Lord....(which is personal by the way)...when you come here and tell me I am going to hell because I am not Catholic.

I could really care less about your background, or how you came to be in the RCC to begin with. The fact of the matter is you ARE in the RCC, and you are in a CHRISTIAN forum board telling us we are "lost!!"

Are you so pious that you can really KNOW us?? Can you honestly see right thorugh us?? I thought that was only for the LORD to do!! Are you HIM?!? You will forgive my tone, I am offended by you and this incredulous post.

While I appreciate your concern for our souls, I would simply ask again that you keep things civil. As I am sure, on your board, if I were to say things as you are here, I would be banned before you could say the word.

Are you showing love in this remark? No. Are we....probably not...but consider the reasons we are irritated....

1. You come here and ask to have discussion on the difference of Catholicism(sp) and Protestantism. You (along with a few others) then proceed to bash, belittle, and harrass anyone that gives contrary opinion to you!

You don't even concider any Scripture references that seem to speak against what you are teaching!!! This does not boad well for you and your insistence of friendly and loving debate!

If the dates set forth are phoney...PROVE IT!! Show us where we are wrong reather than just SAY it!! Show forth your EVIDENCE (something very important to any good apologist as you claim to be).

As for this paragraph:

In the New Testament Our Blessed Lord in Matthew V 26 refers to the prison from which no one is released before his debts are repaid to the last farthing. St. Paul in Cor. 1,3 15 mentions that there are souls who can only be saved 'yet so as by fire'. It is also stated in Revelation 21:27 in reference to heaven - 'There shall in no way enter into it anything defiled". St. Augustine says that these words clearly indicate that there must be forgiveness of some sins in the world to come, which cannot be in heaven as nothing defiled shall enter therein.

It would help to keep things in context, if you wish to get the truth behind any Scripture.

Matthew 5:25-26

25  Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26  Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

In this passage, our Lord is talking about PRISON. JAIL. JUDGES. AND CRIMES! He is exhorting us to settle matters as much as possible outside of court. The NIV renders v 25 this way:

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.

Quite obviously, our Lord does not want us to take each other to court and have a judge settle our personal disputes. He would rather we handle our own problems.

Verse 26 comes directly out of that;

26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

If we don't settle matters, our punishment will be to make FULL restitution to our adversary. This cannot be used to teach purgatory. When we die...it is either glory with Christ....or eternal damnation. Black...or white. No second chances...remembe the rich young ruler who never helped poor Lazarus? Don't you think that if there were second chances...he would have taken it?? As a matter of fact, he asked for a chance. He asked for a drop of water from heaven!! No, my friend....he had his chance in this life. He choose "poorly" (Indiana Jones and the last Crusade...couldn't help it!).

The next one....1 Corinthians 3:15...

Again...I must stress CONTEXT

Let's have a look:

1 Cor 3:10-15

10  According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Alright...the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians is laying the foundation of salvation by faith through CHRIST! Now he is getting into talking about works...and rewards...

Building on the foundation (Christ) with "gold, silver, precious stone," is building for reward in heaven, because as verse 13 says, every man's work will be tried by fire. None of these three examples are destroyed in fire, so the one who builds with them is like the man in verse14...he will receive a reward. On the other hand, if someone builds with wood, hay and stubble, these get burned up in fire and nothing remains but charred ruins...sometimes only ash....the one who builds with these in his life is like the man in verse 15 (whom you quoted); he will suffer loss...but will still be SAVED!! but only as through fire...(it hurts tremendously to be burned). Have you ever been burned?

Next....Revelation 21:27

27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

NIV

Hmm....intereseting thing you left out of the verse....BUT ONLY THOSE WHOSE NAMES ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE!! Those are the ones who are pure...don't do anything shameful or deceitful.

Who are the ones whose names are written in this Book?? LEt's find out, shall we?

Rev 3:5

`He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Rom 10:9

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Speaking to His disciples, Jesus said the following:

Luke 10:20

"Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."

Ok...we have the picture now. The righteous will be the ones with their names written in heaven (book of life). These are the ones refered to in your verse (Rev 21:27). The righteous are the ones that confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead. We rejoice that our names are written in heaven. And at that time when we get there, we will be resurected into our perfect bodies able to "enter in" the gates of heaven.

Again...no grounds for teaching about purgatory...or even praying for the dead. That may have been in the OT...but when Christ came...He made perfect the law given in the OT and freed us from the bondage of that law. And He also abolished some OT practices. If we were still to pray for the dead....it would be taught in the NEW TESTAMENT (COVENANT), The truth is...it isn't taught. Plain and simple.

I know you will reject this...and I pray you don't...but I will not be lookiing at this thread again as this issue will never end.

Much like another topic I deabte with a dear brother.....(Jake)......lol

You would do well to study how to debate properly. You are making alot of mistakes and I may be impelled to call you on them. I already have with two of your mistakes....there are yet a few more.

good day

~sagz

P.S.

All you want is your little closed in world with your anti-Protestant sentiments and you do not care to know what is truth and what is deception.

How does that feel?

[sagz4Christ]

Look, why don't you stop posting if this is THE ONLY THING YOU ARE GOING TO POST. How many times does it have to be spelled out for you? Put the bottle down so you can see clearly, or stop typing.

Uncalled for and utterly un-Christian.

He is simply asking for Biblical documentation for what you believe. I ask the same thing.

Replies such as this make me think that you don't have any references and are hiding it by (flamming) another poster.

I can really see your attempt at learning what we believe and why we believe it.

How old are you again?