When the Bible is Silent

[Guest Cephas]

Not all forms of birth control are forbidden. (I dunno if this is okay to post? If not just delete it mods, and please forgive me!)

Coming from a Jewish outlook on this, the main focus of sin in masturbation and some types of birth control, are the willful destruction of the "seed", which is sperm. We have an example of one man in the bible that willfully destroys his seed as a means of birth control, and this man is struck down dead by G-d.

Shalom

whoa, the reason the man died wasn't for masturbation, it was because he was dishonoring his duties as a husband to his dead brother's wife. He refused to give her a child, which was considedered a requirement by God's laws of those days, so God punished him.

[Guest Cephas]

raven, the possible side affect of anything could cause one to abort. eating fish while pregnant can cause one to abort. it doesn't mean eating fish is a sin, unless the INTENTION of eating fish was to cause a miscarriage.

naziyr, i may concede the point on inheritance, having just looked the scripture passage back up. however,

8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother." 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD's sight; so he put him to death also.

scripture is quite clear that onan's sin was disobedience in regard to giving his brother a child. it was rebellion, even if it wasn't greed.

since you bring up nocturnal emissions, a passage i wasn't going to bring up because in the past, people have argued with me on this board that 'nocturnal emissions' didn't have anything to do with semen, but was instead, supposed to be construed to mean a bowel movement.

God allowed for nocturnal emission when a husband was away at war. that is the whole reason the passage is in there saying that one must leave the camp to perform this act, and then cover the semen with dirt. it is a matter of privacy.

you and i may have to agree to disagree with this one. masturbation, in and of itself, is not a sin. and onan was not struck down by God for practicing birth control. he was struck down for not giving his deceased brother an heir, whether we're talking about property inheritance or just a name to carry on.

Yes, and the reason for giving her a child was to give the BROTHER an heir, NOT the actual father in those cases. Onan would have to provide his own heir from his own wife, not his brother's wife (or perhaps a 2nd son from her, but the first son was his brother's heir, and his alone)

[speckles]

regarding the other post... it is NOT a natural reaction to depo-privera to have a miscarriage, just as it is not the natural reaction to eating fish. (or at least certain types of fish.) NOR is it the intention of the manufacturer of depo to cause a miscarriage, just as it is not the intention of the fisherman that catches the fish. depo's primary function is to prevent ovulation in the first place. yet both fish and depo CAN cause miscarriages as a possible side effect. therefore my analogy is fine.

Actually it is. The fish does not cause a chemical change in the woman's body which thins the lining so an egg can't implant. Depoprovera and other hormonal drugs do that. It is also not an accident that this happens, it's part of the "contraception" plan, in case of break through ovulation. The slowing of the fertilized egg through the fallopian tube so that it dies before it is implanted is also part of the plan for that drug and others like it.

Here is the wikipedia article on Depoprovra where this is discussed.

Here is another article about it.

here is what the government has published about Depo Provera. Note the second item "How does it work?"

Here is another site with the same information.

And yet another....

it isn't a "side effect" which is "accidental" it is the way the shot works, it's intentional, it's advertised as one of the ways that it prevents pregnancies and anyone using it could be killing their babies time after time without even knowing it. And to knowingly take this drug to prevent pregnancy is wrong since that is a known effect of the drug.

[LadyRaven]

regarding the other post... it is NOT a natural reaction to depo-privera to have a miscarriage, just as it is not the natural reaction to eating fish. (or at least certain types of fish.) NOR is it the intention of the manufacturer of depo to cause a miscarriage, just as it is not the intention of the fisherman that catches the fish. depo's primary function is to prevent ovulation in the first place. yet both fish and depo CAN cause miscarriages as a possible side effect. therefore my analogy is fine.

Actually it is. The fish does not cause a chemical change in the woman's body which thins the lining so an egg can't implant. Depoprovera and other hormonal drugs do that. It is also not an accident that this happens, it's part of the "contraception" plan, in case of break through ovulation. The slowing of the fertilized egg through the fallopian tube so that it dies before it is implanted is also part of the plan for that drug and others like it.

Here is the wikipedia article on Depoprovra where this is discussed.

Here is another article about it.

here is what the government has published about Depo Provera. Note the second item "How does it work?"

Here is another site with the same information.

And yet another....

it isn't a "side effect" which is "accidental" it is the way the shot works, it's intentional, it's advertised as one of the ways that it prevents pregnancies and anyone using it could be killing their babies time after time without even knowing it. And to knowingly take this drug to prevent pregnancy is wrong since that is a known effect of the drug.

Exactly what I've been trying to say. It's also in the Physicians Desk Reference if anyone has one. I'd say that's a pretty solid source on the topic. They don't call it abortafacient cause they don't believe it's a pregnancy, however since it is a baby, it is a sin to do anything knowingly that has the effect of killing it.

[bethshemaiah]

Thank all of you for the reply's, I believe you covered just about all of my questions, even the one's I wouldn't personally have asked but was curious about . I have heard it preached that masturbation is sin and I could not support that conclusion at all in scripture and the only reading I've done, supports the idea that it might not be sin but............ it is unheathly for men based on the way that they are verses women. Seemed a bit one sided, but after reading Naz's posts and LadyRaven's responses I do see where it is a much bigger issue biblically for men. Appreciate all of the interesting text on birth control also. So we seem to be in agreement that tying a woman's tubes is acceptable or did I miss something?

Beth

[Nevin]

I think Jesus has given us direction in each and every aspect of our daily lives. Jesus doesn't need to tell us IN ENTIRETY of what is what and what is wrong. Through growth IN HIM we learn, we know, we understand. I believe Jesus spoke in parables probably just for this reason- they can be read and understood in many ways.

With having said that- I think it is really silly to sit around and debate over what's a sin and what isn't. In your heart you know what you're doing is either sinful or not sinful. Listen to your heart which was brought to life in Him. God Bless.

Sierra

I agree totally.