Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Guest shiloh357]

What needs to be understood is that we are saved from SIN, not merely "sins." What are saved from is the power of sin which held dominion over us according to Romans six. The cross represents deliverance from the dominion of sin, or as I also like to call it, the "sin principle." The blood of Jesus deals with our sins on a daily basis. We need to understand that there is a work of the cross and the work of the blood. The blood forgives us for what we do. The cross delivered us from what we were. Salvation is both both deliverance from the dominion of sin, and deliverance into eternal life. The whole debate on "past and future sins" is really pointless, because it is not sins that send us to hell, it is abiding under the dominion of sin, and rejecting salvation that determines our eternal destiny.

[Guest shiloh357]

Okay Shiloh

Now we know we can't add anything to our salvation.

But can we add anything to our faith?

OC

Clarify what you mean, please.

[Guest shiloh357]

What needs to be understood is that we are saved from SIN, not merely "sins." What are saved from is the power of sin which held dominion over us according to Romans six. The cross represents deliverance from the dominion of sin, or as I also like to call it, the "sin principle." The blood of Jesus deals with our sins on a daily basis. We need to understand that there is a work of the cross and the work of the blood. The blood forgives us for what we do. The cross delivered us from what we were. Salvation is both both deliverance from the dominion of sin, and deliverance into eternal life. The whole debate on "past and future sins" is really pointless, because it is not sins that send us to hell, it is abiding under the dominion of sin, and rejecting salvation that determines our eternal destiny.

Shiloh,

How do you rectify that we are saved from "SIN" (meaning all sin past, present, and future sins) from the scriptures below?

2 Corinthians 5:9-10--"Wherefore we labour , that, whether present or absent, we may be "Accepted" of him. For we must "All" appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

And how do you explain or interpret this verse that is also in this fifth chapter of 2 Corinthians?

vs 15--"And that he died for all, that they which live "should not" henceforth live unto themselves But "unto him" which died for them and rose again."

Also can you explain what you mean by "abiding under the dominion of sin" that sends us to hell?

How does one abide under the dominion of sin exactly?

OC

First of all, you ignored the biblical definition of SIN. I used SIN in the singular to distinguish the principle or power of sin we are born into. I am trying to distinguish between SIN (our condition before salvation) and SINS (things we do that are in rebellion to the Will of God). Romans 1:1- 5:11 deals with SINS (plural, the things we do) and the work of the blood. Romans 5:12 -8:39 deals with SIN (singular, our spiritual condition before salvation) and the work of the cross.

As to the Scripture you raised... 2 Cor. 5: 9,10 is talking about a judgement for rewards. This is where our works will be tried by fire. This is not the great white throne judgement where only sinners will stand, as spoken about in Revelation. Paul in 2 Cor. 5 is speaking of the Judgement Seat of Christ, which is ONLY for Christians. This is not a judgement pertaining to whether you are saved, but the degree of your reward for service as a Christian.

My definition of abiding under the dominion of sin is found in Romans six.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

(Romans 6:14)

Sin has dominion over those who are unsaved. Paul in the same chapter refers to us who were at one time slaves, or servants of sin. The cross deals with the power of sin, and our deliverance from the power/dominion sin has over us after we are born, until we are born again. One abides in the dominion of sin, by simply rejecting salvation, rejecting the gospel. All of us are born under the dominion of sin, by default. Only faith in Jesus Christ can change that.

[Thaddaeus]

Shiloh,

Those who are born again will stand at the judgement seat of Christ to receieve their rewards for deeds done in the flesh, but they are not judged as to their salvation. I was already judged righteous when I accpted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I will not be judged on those grounds, ever again.

What texts are you basing both of these statments on?

[Guest shiloh357]

We both agree that works does not bring salvation to a sinner. We can't do anything to get it or earn it except for accept the finished work of the cross and the blood that was shed. So we can't add to our salvation period.

But can we add to our faith? Our faith is seperate from salvation they are two seperate things.

As we recieved our salvation "through faith" by grace.

So can we "add" things to our faith?

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(2 Peter 1:5-8)

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh,

Those who are born again will stand at the judgement seat of Christ to receieve their rewards for deeds done in the flesh, but they are not judged as to their salvation. I was already judged righteous when I accpted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I will not be judged on those grounds, ever again.

What texts are you basing both of these statments on?

Romans chapters 4,5,6,7,8; Eph. 2:8,9 2 Cor. 5:9,10.

[Neopatriarch]

Neopatriarch,

True, Jesus does not say they are 'false-conversions', but I could still accept that understanding of it. Jesus also doesn't say they have saving faith. In fact, the point of the parable of the soils is about maturity. Mature believers produce fruit.

Not really, it is about faith period.

However, lets take your understanding and run with it. If it is about maturity, then how does a Christian believer arrive at maturity? With your understanding a believer, and infant believer is still an unbeliever, outside of the Body of Christ until that point at which he becomes mature. Then that begs the question, what is the mark of a mature christian?

A Christian's belief is mature because Christians have saving belief which is a fruit producing kind of belief. Whether the Christian is a mature Christian is a different question (I don't want to conflate these ideas here). It may have been confusing for me to use the words "mature believers". Sorry. Really, the question is the maturity of a person's belief. Nonchristians can have belief without having saving faith.

Jam 2:17-19 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say,

[redeemed098]

If we cannot ADD to the work of the Cross, then I guess it must be asked...Can we indeed take AWAY from it....?

If faith is the gift from God, then HE must be the only one who can take it away from me....

Whether or not I myself can bring about reasons for God to do such a thing, I am uncertain. Which would of course also prompt the question...Why save me in the first place...?

David cried out to God pleading for him, "Do not take your Spirit from me." and God DID withdraw his Spirit from Saul. So on these scriptures we can see that it is indeed possible for God to withdraw his Spirit should he desire to do so...The question I guess is how do we reconcile these verses with the words that read,

"I will never leave you nor foresake you." Can WE leave HIM...Again, I dont know....Why would I want to...???

Do I believe in once saved always saved.....?? In my own heart and with my own struggles with sin and rebellion even AS a believer, condemnation would tell me that I can UNDO what Christ has DONE......If I look at this according to scripture and NOT how I am feeling about mySELF however, I see this is contrary to my first thoughts. Ultimately I am still alive so I do not have definitive assurance that all that scripture tells me is True....The only time I will really know whether or not my faith was in vain is when I die. As for while I am alive, I have the blessed assurance of Gods Holy Spirit witnessing to my spirit, that I am not only a servant of God, but a son of God.

I personally believe in my own thoughts that I CAN lose my salvation....Whether or not this is Truth I do not know....It all comes down to Christ...What he DID on the Cross either WAS enough or it wasnt...If I can ADD to what Christ did in order to assure my salvation, then logically I am saying that I myself have contributed to it....Scripture counters this quite clearly...

I'd like to think that once saved I am forever saved...but something tells me NO...! I think it is a mystery. Maybe Ill go with Paul on this one....No matter what I might think or even hope to believe, nothing will acquit me, no not even my own conscience as "my final examiner is the Lord."

Regards,

Ben.

[Guest lordhowe77]

k im not sure that i will be accepted in this christian group but i am going to be honest as best that i can. I have parents that r christians and i was brought up as a baptised was born again at the age of 8 or so.

I belive that jesus is my lord and saviour more than anything. recently my eyes have been wide open to the fact that i am in the world but not off the world.

I do have a few things that i have questions about the first is what is the unforgivable sin and have i commited it and the second is that i am in a relationship with my first cousin is this wrong im a normal person and so is she i just dont know if this accepted in christian circles or is it against bible teachings?

[Guest lordhowe77]

i dont know how to use this site yet