Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[apothanein kerdos]

They taught that you could do what you wanted and still be saved. for example the asst pastor was cheating on his wife. Now for years I believed this same thing, and did what ever I pleased and still believed I was saved. As a matter of fact, even then I felt the Lord guiding me to where I need to be. I believe this to be Sanctification.

I don't believe the Lord faulted me for the false teachings I had received, but He gently has brought me unto the correct course. Now for the questions:

1. Do you believe at that time I was saved?

There is no way to tell - either:

A) You were truly saved and God eventually brought you into the truth

or

B) You weren't really saved, but the door was left open

The fact is, what your church taught is wrong, and what the assistant pastor did was equally wrong.

2. If not what was this guiding force leading me in the right direction

The Holy Spirit can still lead us even when we are not saved. That is, in fact, how we become saved - he guides us to Christ.

3. Does the definition of Sanctification match your statement highlighted in red above? I have alread posted the definition for you.

Obviously not. One that accepts Christ and then shows little to no change in his or her life has not begun the process of sanctification.

[Guest lnj]

[

No one has advocated complacency. But christ is not the author of fear. Why would we have to live in abject fear of losing ones salvation. Why would anyone follow christ if he can just take away what he gave us! It would be rather stupid to live the christian life being a christian and then to suddenly lose it all for one sin comitted in moment of human weakness..

Christ isn't that cold hearted! It also would make his death on the cross absolutely meaningless.

If you are right with God and KNOW Him, you will have no fear.

The only fear would be the Reverent fear that a Follower SHOULD have.

[Vickilynn]

Vick,

I'm not sure that I've every read any other of your posts on here before but; Way to go!!!!, this is a good post, that's exactly what I've been trying to say, and you said it so well; thank you, and Shalom

Shalom Spiritman,

Thank you!

[Vickilynn]

Great response, and in perfect harmony with the whole of His word.

Shalom FoC,

Thank you!!

[spiritman]

They taught that you could do what you wanted and still be saved. for example the asst pastor was cheating on his wife. Now for years I believed this same thing, and did what ever I pleased and still believed I was saved. As a matter of fact, even then I felt the Lord guiding me to where I need to be. I believe this to be Sanctification.

I don't believe the Lord faulted me for the false teachings I had received, but He gently has brought me unto the correct course. Now for the questions:

1. Do you believe at that time I was saved?

There is no way to tell - either:

A) You were truly saved and God eventually brought you into the truth

or

B) You weren't really saved, but the door was left open

The fact is, what your church taught is wrong, and what the assistant pastor did was equally wrong.

2. If not what was this guiding force leading me in the right direction

The Holy Spirit can still lead us even when we are not saved. That is, in fact, how we become saved - he guides us to Christ.

3. Does the definition of Sanctification match your statement highlighted in red above? I have alread posted the definition for you.

Obviously not. One that accepts Christ and then shows little to no change in his or her life has not begun the process of sanctification.

Ok please be patient with me, I'm trying to understand you better. This is what you are stating, Please correct me if I'm wrong:

1. That a new convert that sins without realizing it is sin, is still saved but he is being sanctified

2.. A more seasoned convert, (one who has been a Christian a while longer), and commits sin, and he/she knows it is a sin, was never saved to start with, and they are beyond Sanctification, and there is no hope for thier salvation.

Sorry I'm asking some many questions but as a wise man once said " the only dumb question is the one you don't ask".

Thanks in advance

Bob

[apothanein kerdos]

1. That a new convert that sins without realizing it is sin, is still saved but he is being sanctified

We all begin a process of sanctification. If someone comes to Christ with the wrong motives, then he did not come to Christ at all. If he comes with the right motives, but discipleship is lax, I believe God will pull him to Himself, and sanctify Him.

2.. A more seasoned convert, (one who has been a Christian a while longer), and commits sin, and he/she knows it is a sin, was never saved to start with, and they are beyond Sanctification, and there is no hope for thier salvation.

Sin has nothing to do with it. What I am saying is if someone claims to be a Christian, but fails to show fruit, has always failed to show fruit, or has consistently been leading a life of sin, then that person was most likely not saved to begin with.

[Guest lnj]

[. What I am saying is if someone claims to be a Christian, but fails to show fruit, has always failed to show fruit, or has consistently been leading a life of sin, then that person was most likely not saved to begin with.

If one is connected to the Vine being Jesus, and the Branches are His Followers, the Fruit that one bears will be consistent with the Word. You shall KNOW them by the Fruit they bear.

A TRUE Follower of Christ will not be producing fruit opposite to His Word. Healthy trees do not produce rotten Fruit.

He KNOWS His Sheep and they Follow(know) His voice but false followers (the pleasers of men rather than God), also follow and are rejected in the Final Judgment. You have read the verse in the Bible where it says this plain and clear.

[Vickilynn]

Sin has nothing to do with it. What I am saying is if someone claims to be a Christian, but fails to show fruit, has always failed to show fruit, or has consistently been leading a life of sin, then that person was most likely not saved to begin with.

Shalom,

I would say that is not for us to determine, but for G-d alone, for He alone knows the heart and we do not. We cannot say whether someone was saved.

The Bible says there are people who are saved, but "fall away."

Mark 4

13And he said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? 14The sower sows the word. 15And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. 16And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. 17And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.[a] 18And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, 19but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 20But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold."

And this from Hebrews says these were definitely saved, yet "fall away"

Hebrews 6

4For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

What about someone who DOES show fruit and lived a wonderful life reflecting Jesus and then turns their back on their salvation, rejects Jesus and states they have changed their mind about being saved and no longer wish to be.

Edited February 18, 2007 by Vickilynn

[Guest lnj]

[

The Bible says there are people who are saved, but "fall away."

I'm wondering if those who "fall away" are the same as the "branches" who do not ABIDE in Christ(having Christ living in them),1. wither, 2.then gathered, 3.thrown into the fire and 4.burned?

(John 15 v 6)

The imagery of a branch being burned has a definite finality about it. A ring of rejection.

Complacency in our Walk can lead to damaged fruit. Now withered branches, that's talking about us ourselves...the very Follower.

[Guest lnj]

What about someone who DOES show fruit and lived a wonderful life reflecting Jesus and then turns their back on their salvation, rejects Jesus and states they have changed their mind about being saved and no longer wish to be.

Jesus is clear on this..He said if you disown Him in front of man, He will disown you in front of the Father in Heaven.

Once again it boils down to freewill of the individual - choice.