For those who believe solely in the "local church"

[kittylover0991]

Hey everyone,

I am not trying ot exclude anybody from this thread, but merely, I am tryign to find an answer to a question without dealing with a debate between "there are many churches" or "we are ALL the church"... Alright, so we know the word church is singular and comes from the Greek word "ekklesia" which means 'a called assembly".. the church is a called assembly of born again, baptised believers... we know that the bible is all those are saved(right?) but a church is singular and there are many churches.. such as in the bible there is the "Church of Corinth"..the church at Ephesus, Thyatyra, Philidelphia, Colosi, etc....

But when Christ said, "I will build my church"... I know that means that we are part of predictive prophecy because Christ said he would build his churh.. and the church is not building, but a called assmebly... not everyone that is saved... but my question comes from that verse specifically...

Christ said "I will build my church".. he didn't say, I will build my churches... does he mean one "universal" church or is he talking about one specifc churcH??

[Ovedya]

The church is both universal and local. In terms of the Body of Christ, that is, the one new man which Christ created on the cross, and which Christ fills as life, the church is universal. It is the sum total of all genuine believers worldwide.

In the Bible, however, it cannot be denied that the churches in practicality were local. The churches are identified by a specific region or city. Therefore, the expression of the universal church, the Body of Christ, is practically carried out localy.

Clear as mud?

[kittylover0991]

clear as mud.. thank you....

Alright.. I don't believe in the universal church whatsoever... I don't believe that everyone is "the church".. I believe there are local churches.... now I am just trying to understand that verse that I used never to have a problem with, but now just can't seem to figure it out

[Smalcald]

I believe in the true Universal and eternal Church of Christ.

[Ovedya]

clear as mud.. thank you....

Alright.. I don't believe in the universal church whatsoever... I don't believe that everyone is "the church".. I believe there are local churches.... now I am just trying to understand that verse that I used never to have a problem with, but now just can't seem to figure it out

Well...Everyone who is a genuine blood-washed, Spirit regenerated, believer in the Lord Jesus, is a member of the church. What verse are you referring to?

[kittylover0991]

lol, you see.. I dotn' believe that.. I believe there are different churches ... that not everyone that is a believer is "the church"....

the verse is "I will build my church".. but no offense to you... I don't really know if anyone who believes in the Universal church can actually answer my question in the sense that I am asking it *sigh* sorry...

[Ovedya]

I don't find in the New Testament anywhere that genuine believers are not members of the church. Where are there requirements or conditions for membership?

When the Lord said, "I will build my church" He was talking specifically of His creation of the one new man on the cross (Eph. 2:15; 4:24; Col.3:10)

[kittylover0991]

*sigh* I know you have to be saved and baptised in order to join the church...

but what I am saying is, I don't believe there is a UNIVERSAL church.. I believe in the biblical "local" churches... a church is a called ASSEMBLY of born again, baptised believers... so that isn't everyone in the world...

There were different churches in the bible and there are many different churches today ... I think there are at least four or five others churches that I can name that are really close to where I live.. I dont believe in there being one universal church....

[Guest LadyC]

i think when Christ said that, He was saying He would build His body of believers. not the catholic church, not the protestant church, not the jewish tabrenacle or the messianic tabrenacle.

that shouldn't take away from the importance of local churches as places to assemble, to worship, and to get spiritually fed and taught.

maybe i just don't get the question?

[Ovedya]

*sigh* I know you have to be saved and baptised in order to join the church...

but what I am saying is, I don't believe there is a UNIVERSAL church.. I believe in the biblical "local" churches... a church is a called ASSEMBLY of born again, baptised believers... so that isn't everyone in the world...

There were different churches in the bible and there are many different churches today ... I think there are at least four or five others churches that I can name that are really close to where I live.. I dont believe in there being one universal church....

Okay, then let's take this a little more logically - from the Bible.

In the Old Testament God called the children of Israel His people, right? We know tha tthe children of Israel were first "called out" of Egypt as one nation, and led in the wilderness to the good land. Yet after taking the good land Israel fought off and on for many years with the surrounding nations. Eventually, because of their disobedience, God caused them to be dispersed.

The question is, because of their dispersion, are the children of Israel no longer God's people? Now, some have said yes, and some have said no. I do not wish to debate that aspect. I do wish to bring to mind that God's people are a part of a "body" of people whom He has "called out" from a certain place. And geographic distances do not affect the identity of those people. The children of Israel were "called out" as a nation from Egypt - from the predominant world power at that time. Likewise, we, as believers, were "called out" of the world - and away from the ruler of this world, Satan - to live unto God, to be His people. And while geography separated the children of Israel from Pharoh and Egypt, to us faith in Christ and baptism have separated us from the world and from Satan.

See, being baptised and saved are matters of life, not of outward qualification. In some "churches" there is a requirement that an already regenerated believer re-confess his faith in Christ and be re-baptised. Never in the Bible is there such a requirement to be a part of a local assembly of believers. In fact, the local assembly of believers gathers together on the basis of that which is "universal" to them, in order to practically carry out God's desire on the earth. What is "universal" to all believers? It's the life and nature of the one who indwells them - Christ.

If our understanding of "the church" is that is it relegated to a particular earthly human institution, then our vision needs lifting up. We do not see the universal aspect of the church, which is "Christ in you..."