apothanein kerdos Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2006 In an attempt to get this board a bit more focused: Let's say that you have a serial killer who has been proved by DNA evidence that he has killed X number of victims. Now-- what do we sentance him with? Life in prision without parole or death? I believe the question here is not "Did they do it?" It is instead, "Can we as humans issue the death of another human?" If you knew for a fact, 100%, that this man killed X number of people, what would you sentance? We know that as humans we are an imperfect people (and in turn the government is not perfect either). Do we have the right to decide when someone else's life will end, or is that strictly God's job? That is the ultimate issue in the death penalty in my mind. Kill him. Again, Genesis 9:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted October 30, 2006 In an attempt to get this board a bit more focused: Let's say that you have a serial killer who has been proved by DNA evidence that he has killed X number of victims. Now-- what do we sentance him with? Life in prision without parole or death? I believe the question here is not "Did they do it?" It is instead, "Can we as humans issue the death of another human?" If you knew for a fact, 100%, that this man killed X number of people, what would you sentance? We know that as humans we are an imperfect people (and in turn the government is not perfect either). Do we have the right to decide when someone else's life will end, or is that strictly God's job? That is the ultimate issue in the death penalty in my mind. God instituted the death penalty, therefore the theory behind it is just and correct. Since we have no doubt about this individual, it would be entirely just and right for the judge to condemn the man to death. I also believe this should be carried out swiftly, without numerous appeals and years on death row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted October 30, 2006 The Commandment is for us as individuals. We are not to kill. When we do, the government has the authority under God to act as judge, jury and executioner, and even mercy-giver. I have searched the Bible and found nowhere where it says: "We are not to kill. When we do, the government has the authority under God to act as judge, jury and executioner, and even mercy-giver". Do you realise that "we are not to kill, when we do...." is a contradiction in terms? It is sort of like saying "you are commanded not to kill, but I know you are arrogant and will disobey my commands, so when you do.............." Am I the only one who finds the idea that God has given this authority "to the government" to be absolutely repugnant? Please don't ignore this, point out how exactly you get this out of the Bible. I might even have to concede that you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 30, 2006 Am I the only one who finds the idea that God has given this authority "to the government" to be absolutely repugnant? Yeah, because apparently Peter and Paul disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 In an attempt to get this board a bit more focused: Let's say that you have a serial killer who has been proved by DNA evidence that he has killed X number of victims. Now-- what do we sentance him with? Life in prision without parole or death? I believe the question here is not "Did they do it?" It is instead, "Can we as humans issue the death of another human?" If you knew for a fact, 100%, that this man killed X number of people, what would you sentance? We know that as humans we are an imperfect people (and in turn the government is not perfect either). Do we have the right to decide when someone else's life will end, or is that strictly God's job? That is the ultimate issue in the death penalty in my mind. Kill him. Again, Genesis 9:7 Mark 12:29-31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Am I the only one who finds the idea that God has given this authority "to the government" to be absolutely repugnant? Yeah, because apparently Peter and Paul disagree with you. OK WHERE did Peter and Paul say that God had delegated authority to the government to kill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckthesystem Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,706 Topics Per Day: 0.26 Content Count: 3,386 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/12/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/10/1955 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I've read most of this thread, as far as I could stand to read anyway, and everywhere I am seeing "God gave government the power to kill", it is OK to kill 'legally'" (what ever is meant by that), government can kill but we as individuals cannot. And I am wondering where some of you get these things from. The Bible says plainly, obviously, you cannot miss it: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL". It does not say "Thou shalt not kill unless of course you work for the government". People seem to like to bring up the word "legally". Well we must remember that what is "legal" and what is not "legal" has been created by man, not God. The Bible is very clear that where a command of government goes against a command of God, Christians are duty bound to refuse to obey it. Any command of government that says that someone must die and somebody must kill them, clearly goes against the command of God who said "Thou shalt not kill". That is not superceded by the state's perceived "power". Those of you who will try to say that Romans 13 tells us that God has delegated power to the state must remember that Paul meant that God had ordained governments and rulers to maintain public order and act for the general welfare of society. In principle, then, he is talking of the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 30, 2006 a murderer who is black gets killed more than a murderer who is white, How does someone get killed more than someone else? t. A black convict who is convicted of the same crime as a white convict will have a higher chance of getting the death penalty. I didn't word it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 30, 2006 It is inconsistent, a murderer who is black gets killed more than a murderer who is white, a male murderer is killed at higher rates than female murderers, poor murderers are killed at higher rates than rich ones, and we make mistakes. Look up the federal statistics - the average death row inmate is a white male between the ages of 25-40 and middle class. You only got one of your assumptions correct. I did look up the statistics on penalties for the same crimes when you directly compare the races. But the problem is as I said the basic inconsistency of our court system. If we are going to take someone's life should it really be dependant on what kind of a legal team they can afford? From a Christian viewpoint I believe the government does have the authority to take life in extraordinary circumstances, we are doing it right now in Iraq. I just don't see a reason for the death penalty in our society in the US today. If I knew that cops never lied, if I knew that people never got framed, if I knew that we had a totally fair and objective court system I would feel much better about officially taking a human life. But our government is far from perfect; in fact it is often bumbling, corrupt and bloated. I am not confident that it has the ability to carry out the death penalty. If there were no other options, I would say okay we have to do it. But we do have options; we can send these guys to supermax for life without parole. What happens is they spend decades on death role while we foot the bill for decades of legal appeals; it is insanely expensive to kill one person in our current process. I also dislike the death penalty because it is a grandstanding issue for pol's who want to act tough on crime without having to actually do anything real about it. California and New York have the death penalty. Pataki back in 94 ran on the issue as a big tough on crime move and he got his wish. Guess how many people have actually been executed in NY since 94? It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted October 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Do you realise that "we are not to kill, when we do...." is a contradiction in terms? It is sort of like saying "you are commanded not to kill, but I know you are arrogant and will disobey my commands, so when you do.............." Precisely! God knows we will not obey His commandments. We are walking contradictions to the will of God. He made laws for us to implement in order that we have a society with at least some justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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