kittylover0991 Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 490 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,726 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1990 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 THANKYOU so much for pointing me towards that thread It has more pages than Apologetics does, but it seems to have A LOT of answers that I've been looking for! Thankyou!!!!! Crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunky Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 364 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2006 Catholics baptize babies thinking water can remove original sin. They pray to Mary, Jesus mother because God is seen as an angry God and not approachable directly. She is now called a co-redeemer with Jesus. Praying to the dead.... forbidden by God. Praying to dead "saints" also forbidden by God. Only a certain class of people get to be "saints" In communion the wine becomes the actual blood of Christ and the wafer, which is to be worshipped, turns into the body of Jesus. Any left-overs need to be buried like a body. When one dies they go to purgatory... a holding place to work on their sin before heaven. Those alive can give a large sum to the church ... hundreds of dollars to say a "mass" a service, in their name, supposedly getting them out of this purgatory sooner. In other words... buying salvation. Martin Luther came against this buying salvation by money and a degree from the pope or priest. They have their own bible and their doctrines come out of extra-biblical writings not true. When one sins, they confess to the priest, pastor, and then they say "hail mary's" or "our father" the Lord's prayer a certain amount of times and that forgives them. The pope is christ on earth... infallable and yes, they do change their doctrines as time evolves and the popes want to change it, but it is slow enough that most people don't realize what is going on. The killed real christians throughout time. They tried to kill Martin Luther, but he kept running and hiding. The inquisition was killing real christians who disagreed with them. They still think you and I are heretics. Only the catholic church, to them, is saved. You have to be a member of their denomination to be saved. It is a religion of works. The mass, the service, is focused around the euchrist, the Lord's supper, but has nothing to do with what Jesus instituted. It is re-sacrificing Jesus every time. That is why on their crosses, Jesus is a dead Christ. They worship Mary. Not merely "honor" her... worship her. They pray the rosary... meaningless repetition going to Mary first with prayers. They do not believe in being born again. They refuse birth control so that their families will be larger and eventually take over more and more of the world. They want to rule. It IS NOT Christian. They are a large prosperous cult. hmm, nope I can't tell your hostile against catholics at all God Bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darski Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1948 Share Posted November 23, 2006 There is a difference in the RC belief in infant baptism than in many denominations who observe this rite. Catholics teach that the child will go straight to hell without baptism (never having done any works to earn heaven) and the Reformed churches believe that the child who dies will go to heaven. The Reformed churches believe that the child is welcomed into the family of God and becomes a charge on the congregation but is not saved by baptism. The primary doctrine of the RC church is that Jesus is not enough for salvation. It is the church plus Jesus and a whole lot of works that might get you into heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2006 There is a difference in the RC belief in infant baptism than in many denominations who observe this rite. Catholics teach that the child will go straight to hell without baptism (never having done any works to earn heaven) and the Reformed churches believe that the child who dies will go to heaven. The Reformed churches believe that the child is welcomed into the family of God and becomes a charge on the congregation but is not saved by baptism. The primary doctrine of the RC church is that Jesus is not enough for salvation. It is the church plus Jesus and a whole lot of works that might get you into heaven. With all due respect, darski, you are wrong. This is a total misrepresentation of what the RCC teaches. If you really want to know the true beliefs and doctrines of the Catholic Church, they are not a secret. The "Catechism of the Catholic Church" is available on line. Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2006 For example: 1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2006 ....or this: 1026 By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has "opened" heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 23, 2006 There are definately similarities in the liturgy of the Catholic Church and Episcopal Church that I attend but one thing I can't get over- Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin but this view is not biblical (the bible doesn't say) - does this view come from an Augustinian view of sexuality? It just seems to make sex something that is bad - Is this why priests and nuns are not allowed to marry? Peace be with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2006 There are definately similarities in the liturgy of the Catholic Church and Episcopal Church that I attend but one thing I can't get over- Catholics believe that Mary remained a virgin but this view is not biblical (the bible doesn't say) - does this view come from an Augustinian view of sexuality? It just seems to make sex something that is bad - Is this why priests and nuns are not allowed to marry? Peace be with you The Catholic Church teaches that sex is a beautiful expression of love between a husband and wife---not something "bad". The perpetual virginity of Mary is based in Scripture. For example: Luke 2: 41-51 at age 12, evidently Jesus is the only son of Mary Mark 6:3 Jesus is called the son of Mary; not a son of Mary ***************************************************** Mt 27: 56 Mary the mother of James and Joseph is also John 19: 25 Mary the wife of Clopas So James and Joseph are not brothers of Jesus **************************************************** John 19: 26 Jesus entrusts his mother to John---why not a sibling??? Peace, Fiosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartofstone Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 149 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/14/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2006 ^ I don't remember that being true, about Jesus being her only child. I thought that in one part of Jesus' life, during His ministry, when He was at a house out of town, maybe just before that man was lifted down through the roof to lay before Jesus, Jesus' mother and brother(s) and maybe sister were outside wanting to see Him and when a disciple told Jesus of this, He said something about family being those who were loyal or close to Him? *must try to find the Scriptures exactly* Anyway, to the original question, I think in part you can find reasons why many were upset with the Catholic Church in history, even at the time before Luther and leading right up to him, and those reasons kind of could explain the animosity or dislike of the Church today. I mean, for instance, right after the Black Death, people started losing faith in the Church and were angry at the priests for how they had abandoned people when they were dropping dead like flies. Basically, that's something that I learned recently in respect to some European countries.... And then there's that part about having to buy notes (indulgences?) from priests that would sort of free people from purgatory or whever else they might be, but it's pretty well known anyway and a lot of priests before Luther posted the 95 theses (sp?) had begun to abuse even that abusive system. Witnessing one of those priests selling those notes is supposedly one serious event that really upset him and motivated him to do what he did. I don't mean to attack the Church but like has already been mentioned, there are a lot of tenets to it that people don't agree with, like doing good works as a necessary part of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted November 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Catholics baptize babies thinking water can remove original sin. They pray to Mary, Jesus mother because God is seen as an angry God and not approachable directly. She is now called a co-redeemer with Jesus. Praying to the dead.... forbidden by God. Praying to dead "saints" also forbidden by God. Only a certain class of people get to be "saints" In communion the wine becomes the actual blood of Christ and the wafer, which is to be worshipped, turns into the body of Jesus. Any left-overs need to be buried like a body. When one dies they go to purgatory... a holding place to work on their sin before heaven. Those alive can give a large sum to the church ... hundreds of dollars to say a "mass" a service, in their name, supposedly getting them out of this purgatory sooner. In other words... buying salvation. Martin Luther came against this buying salvation by money and a degree from the pope or priest. They have their own bible and their doctrines come out of extra-biblical writings not true. When one sins, they confess to the priest, pastor, and then they say "hail mary's" or "our father" the Lord's prayer a certain amount of times and that forgives them. The pope is christ on earth... infallable and yes, they do change their doctrines as time evolves and the popes want to change it, but it is slow enough that most people don't realize what is going on. The killed real christians throughout time. They tried to kill Martin Luther, but he kept running and hiding. The inquisition was killing real christians who disagreed with them. They still think you and I are heretics. Only the catholic church, to them, is saved. You have to be a member of their denomination to be saved. It is a religion of works. The mass, the service, is focused around the euchrist, the Lord's supper, but has nothing to do with what Jesus instituted. It is re-sacrificing Jesus every time. That is why on their crosses, Jesus is a dead Christ. They worship Mary. Not merely "honor" her... worship her. They pray the rosary... meaningless repetition going to Mary first with prayers. They do not believe in being born again. They refuse birth control so that their families will be larger and eventually take over more and more of the world. They want to rule. It IS NOT Christian. They are a large prosperous cult. Mr. Jacobson, you are about 90% WRONG. Who taught you these things? Do you want to learn the facts, or just spew your calumnies? I would spend the time to refute each of your gross errors of fact here, but if your hatred is so so deep-seated as it seems to be no amount of truth could touch it, for when people hate like that, they cherish and nurture this hatred in their very soul and being. I hope you find deliverance from this................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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